Is Faith bi..?

[nerd4hire]

I'm in denial, or you're in fantasy land. Let's see who the facts support.

There's stuff you can see as subtext if you choose, but most subtext points to a reality. There is no reality, so there's probably no subtext.

Faith is wild and flirty. It's seductive. Buffy, for a bit, is seduced by it. She gets wild and flirty. The subtext is Buffy is being seduced to the dark side. Hetero girls getting wild and flirty with each other is not subtext. It's what they do.

Buffy jokes about going out with Faith. Is that subtext, or a joke? Xander says "Gay me up Willow". Subtext or a joke?

I'll show you what subtext insinuating bisexuality looks like.

Willow: (appalled) It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? (Angel closes
the door) I'm so evil and... skanky. (aside to Buffy, worried) And I
think I'm kinda gay.

Buffy: (reassuringly) Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality
has nothing to do with the person it was.

Angel: (without thinking) Well, actually... (gets a look from Buffy)
That's a good point.

 

[doppelgänger2]

Honestly now? Can't really see "your facts" supporting anything else than a wish to get all hetero-normative on our sorry Fuffy-loving butts. What I see here is two people inerpreting things differently. I respect and accept your point of view, I just don not agree with it. I was just being funny about the denial part btw.

You choose not to acknowledge the "seduction to the darkside" as anything else than that; I however choose the point of view that there is much more under the surface. Because I do believe Petrie when he says that "they" loved to play around with the lesbian subtext.

I don't think it's a valid point to compare Xander and Willow with Faith in this case. Faith would never make a bubbly joke, she is not a bubbly character, she's straight forward and blunt. There are lots of examples of dialogue between Faith and Buffy where Faith, in her own special way, says things that are clearly interpreted (and even inteded so by the writers in some cases) as subtext by some. Now, you can interpret that as only a joke and bring me "facts" about how "subtext insinuating bisexuality looks like", but I can't see that as facts more than just your way of seeing things.

 

[nerd4hire]

There's no need to get personal. It's not straights versus the gays. It's what does the text say.

I think if you type Faith quote into Google, you're going to discover she does joke - a lot.

Scott? There you are, honey! Hey, good news. The doctor says that the itching and the swelling and the burning should clear up, (puts her hands on his chest) but we gotta keep using the ointment.

I don't know the Petrie quote so I'm unaware of the context, but if he said "playing around with the sub-text" that suggests they weren't serious.

And yes you can choose to see lesbian subtext. It doesn't mean it's there. It means the opportunity to see it is there, but there in the sense that it suggests a reality, no, that's not there.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

See, the problem I have with your argument N4H is that you are putting words into the characters/writers/creators mouth.
You interesting exchange between Brian and Joss is simply your own minds play of something.
Just because Faith stated that she wouldn't go down on 'this' chick, means what. That she will not have 'relations' with her. Thats not by any means someone shooting down Faith is interested in women argument.
Its a supporting argument but not the key to winning it.
If you choose to believe that Faith is 100% straight, so be it. Have a good life with that, but don't tell people its undeniable fact when it isn't(yet).
The 'fact' that two differing people, including the creator, have commented n the sexual tension and lesbian subtext between Buffy and Faith does give some credence to the the arguement that Faith might enjoy some lady lovin, however what strikes me as interesting again is that this was mutual chemistry and no one is suggesting Buffy is bi.

Because I do believe Petrie when he says that "they" loved to play around with the lesbian subtext.

Again N4H, I see why you have immediately jumped on the word 'play' in this line, but it doesn't mean they were being jovial.
People throught-out the world use the phrase 'play around' to mean different things, one of which includes taking something and approaching it from different stances and see how it works out.
I've often 'played around' with some ideasat work and seen which works best.

Way I see this argument is:-

There are two sides to is, neither has been proven wrong yet but both can't be right.
I watch the show with my opinion firmly stored in my mind until the time something 'definitive' tells me otherwise.
Until that time, its so much not an issue that I'm going to grab myself a cold beer, eat my sunday lunch and just for the heck of it, i'm going to watch 'Faith, Hope and Trick'.


Ohhh and Doppelgangbang (hehe), I don't know what is wrong with me. I'm not usually the one to try and debate properly and hold it together, I usually start calling names and stuff, so world peace wouldn't work(plus remember the price).

I think I must be ill or something or in a really good mood either way I want to revert to my old self, so here goes.
Doppel, your theory is inaccurate and based on a faulty idea and you are a smelly belly!!!
😉

 

[doppelgänger2]

N4H, I'm not taking this personal at all, quite the opposite. And you're right, it's not a case of "straights versus the gays". I am just having a hard time seeing how your points of view and personal oppinions are "facts" in this context. There's a huge difference between theories and ideologies, as in this case there's a huge difference between facts and theories. I agree with Bored of the Dead about you "putting words into the characters/writers/creators mouth".

The 'fact' that two differing people, including the creator, have commented n the sexual tension and lesbian subtext between Buffy and Faith does give some credence to the the arguement that Faith might enjoy some lady lovin, however what strikes me as interesting again is that this was mutual chemistry and no one is suggesting Buffy is bi.

You know, that is interesting indeed! Perhaps someone should open a discussion called "Is Buffy bi...?". Cause that's something that should be discussed more.

Ohhh and Doppelgangbang (hehe), I don't know what is wrong with me. I'm not usually the one to try and debate properly and hold it together, I usually start calling names and stuff, so world peace wouldn't work(plus remember the price).

I think I must be ill or something or in a really good mood either way I want to revert to my old self, so here goes.
Doppel, your theory is inaccurate and based on a faulty idea and you are a smelly belly!!!
😉

LMAO! Nice try Bored me to Death, but I ain't crying yet. The smelly belly part you could very well be right about not about my theory!

 

[Mortal]

This argument makes no sense what so ever. Like I said before, just 'cause she's willing to have sex with random guys (probably not ever guy she meets though, we don't know anything about that), and not with any random girl, does not mean she isn't ever attracted to girls.

We know Faith's attitude towards sex is rather casual to say the least. There's every reason to believe that she would use sex to carry out a mission if called to do so, at the very least she would consider it. Therefore her rejection of the use of sex because the target is a female is significant. Giles said she has to use "subterfuge and cunning" to get close to the target and she immediately indicates that she's not the Chosen One to go down on girls. Obviously she's not even sure what Giles meant, but just wanted him to know that she's not into women lest there was any confusion on that point. That's pretty cut and dry stuff.

Now could she later turn bi or gay? Of course, anything could happen but right now the evidence suggests she not into women.

And by the way, I don't care whether she is bi or not (actually bi-ness in women is a turn on for me). I'd love to see her and Buffy or some other hot girl make out.

 

[nerd4hire]

Much as I'd like to repond I look up and see we're well over the 100 post thread limit. Damn, where did the time go. 🙂 It would be wrong for me to slip in my final word and close it, so I won't do that. I'll just close it.

For now, thanks for the great debate people. See you on the next one. 🙂