Is Glory Dead?

[nerd4hire]

I never really got this one. Like if Giles kills Ben, where does that leave Glory? The First Evil takes on Glory's persona in Season 7's Lesson's, doesn't it? I was under the impression it could only do that with the dead. So is Glory Dead? Can a God die?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I personally don't believe she is dead.
It just doesnt make sense.
I like to think her essence is somehow still 'living' waiting for a conduit😉 to allow herself to regain form.

 

[watcher1006]

I agree with Dia DeLa Muerte, though I'm waiting for the experts to weigh in here! 😉 In my humble opinion, I think that Glory never died. During her final battle with Buffy she tells her "You can't kill me". Maybe not. It's my theory that when Giles killed Ben, Glory somehow got trapped in a state in which she could no longer take form physically or manifest her powers, because the vessel in which she existed in the world was destroyed before she could go back to her own "hell dimension".

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Well I guess she is dead, because she was linked to Ben and if he dies she dies, and then the first took her form, but yeah it is a little weird that a god could die!

 

[Angel's vision]

I don't believe she's dead just trapped somewhere, killing Ben just stopped her from being in our dimention i think.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

But she must be dead if the first can take on her form?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

But what constitues as dead.
Its constantly said, even by the writers, that Buffy Julled Angel at the end of season 2 but to me he travelled across dimensions.
Also, Drusilla, Buffy and Spike were seen as the First, and if you think it about it, Drusilla didn't 'die' the original host died.

Glory's 'soul' could have been released, thus meaning in terms to be used by the 'First' she is dead, but that doesnt mean she can't, as some energy, be waiting to recorporealize....or even have moved to another dimension.

 

[watcher1006]

How do the rules about forms of the First apply to non-humans? The First could take the form of Drusilla. Dead and soul-less, for sure, but still existing at the time of "Lessons". Glory being a god, I don't know if "alive" or "dead" mattered as far as the First was concerned.

It's my feeling that if Clare Kramer had been available and they wanted to bring her back as Glory in Season 7 the way they did Mayor Wilkins, her appearance could have been easily explained.

 

[Nighthawk]

GREGOR: Such was her power. They feared she would attempt to seize their dimension for herself, and decided to strike first. A great battle erupted. In the end, they stood victorious over the beast ... barely. She was cast out. Banished to this lower plane of existence, forced to live and eventually die trapped within the body of a mortal ... a newborn male, created as her prison. That is the beast's ... only weakness.

BUFFY: Kill the man ... and the god dies.

GREGOR: Unfortunately, the identity of the human vessel has never been discovered.

My guess is Glory is dead.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

GREGOR: Such was her power. They feared she would attempt to seize their dimension for herself, and decided to strike first. A great battle erupted. In the end, they stood victorious over the beast ... barely. She was cast out. Banished to this lower plane of existence, forced to live and eventually die trapped within the body of a mortal ... a newborn male, created as her prison. That is the beast's ... only weakness.

BUFFY: Kill the man ... and the god dies.

GREGOR: Unfortunately, the identity of the human vessel has never been discovered.

My guess is Glory is dead.

But his information could be flawed simply because he is Human.
I mean just because its said does not make it so.

 

[Nighthawk]

Yes, just because it's said does not mean it's right, I know that. But I don't think the first could take the form of someone/thing that wasn't dead even if it is a god.

 

[M-a-r-c]

Nighthawks post and they fact that the first was able to appear as her says to me Glory is well and truly dead.

Is there actually any evidence that she could still be alive? Someone said something about her saying she cant die. Was she unaware sshe could die in the mortal Bens body or is she really not able to die...

I believe she is dead.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Yes, just because it's said does not mean it's right, I know that. But I don't think the first could take the form of someone/thing that wasn't dead even if it is a god.

But we dont know what actually constitutues as death in the verse for the first.
We areled to believe that The First is a mixture of the being it is and the first evil, allowing it to be so precise, yet we know from proof that it cant be that, as to be Drusilaa she would have to not exist, yet she is still 'alive'. As is Spike and even Buffy.
Now if it means the release of soul, then does that mean she is gone forever....no cause we see the soul constantly brought back.
So then that leaves Dimensional travel. Whats the difference between Buffy going to Heaven and Cordy ascending. We know they BOTH were in 'paradise' and they both come back, But Cordy is treated as though she was from a Separate Dimension where as Buffy had died.
Can the First take the Form of Cordelia Spin the Bottle?...i dont think so.
The lines between life and death in the verse are so ambiguous that no one can say for sure on any case, including Glory.

 

[Schillaci]

GREGOR: Such was her power. They feared she would attempt to seize their dimension for herself, and decided to strike first. A great battle erupted. In the end, they stood victorious over the beast ... barely. She was cast out. Banished to this lower plane of existence, forced to live and eventually die trapped within the body of a mortal ... a newborn male, created as her prison. That is the beast's ... only weakness.

BUFFY: Kill the man ... and the god dies.

GREGOR: Unfortunately, the identity of the human vessel has never been discovered.

My guess is Glory is dead.

Ok, so why did the other hell gods not just kill her? If they feared her so much, seems silly to let her live in another dimension. They know how powerful she is, they're gods, they must also know its possible she could return to their dimension.

I doubt its possible to "kill" a god.

 

[M-a-r-c]

I thought she was so strong that they were only able to send her to another dimension and werent strong enough to kill her themselves.

They knew it would be hard for her to return as the key could've taken the form of anything.

 

[VisionGuy]

I don't think Glory is dead. A god can't die. I just think that she's stuck in some sort of limbo waiting to be recorporealized or something. Like let's take Jasmine. She had to pull some strings in order to make herself come to be on earth. Jasmine was neither alive nor dead when she was manipulating the AI team way back in the first three seasons. I think that Glory is kinda like the same way. Does anyone understand what I'm saying?

 

[Nighthawk]

Ok, so why did the other hell gods not just kill her? If they feared her so much, seems silly to let her live in another dimension. They know how powerful she is, they're gods, they must also know its possible she could return to their dimension.

GREGOR: What do you know of the beast?

BUFFY: Strong. Fast. Hellgod.
GREGOR: From a dimension of unspeakable torment.

BUFFY: A demon dimension. I know. She ruled with two other hellgods, right?

GREGOR: Along with the beast they were a triumvirate of suffering and despair. Ruling with equal vengeance. But the beast's power grew beyond even what they could conceive. As did her lust for pain and misery. They looked upon her, what she had become ... and trembled.

BUFFY: (nervously) A god afraid?

GREGOR: Such was her power. They feared she would attempt to seize their dimension for herself, and decided to strike first. A great battle erupted. In the end, they stood victorious over the beast ... barely. She was cast out. Banished to this lower plane of existence, forced to live and eventually die trapped within the body of a mortal ... a newborn male, created as her prison. That is the beast's ... only weakness.

BUFFY: Kill the man ... and the god dies.

They were too weak too kill her.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

GREGOR: What do you know of the beast?

BUFFY: Strong. Fast. Hellgod.
GREGOR: From a dimension of unspeakable torment.

BUFFY: A demon dimension. I know. She ruled with two other hellgods, right?

GREGOR: Along with the beast they were a triumvirate of suffering and despair. Ruling with equal vengeance. But the beast's power grew beyond even what they could conceive. As did her lust for pain and misery. They looked upon her, what she had become ... and trembled.

BUFFY: (nervously) A god afraid?

GREGOR: Such was her power. They feared she would attempt to seize their dimension for herself, and decided to strike first. A great battle erupted. In the end, they stood victorious over the beast ... barely. She was cast out. Banished to this lower plane of existence, forced to live and eventually die trapped within the body of a mortal ... a newborn male, created as her prison. That is the beast's ... only weakness.

BUFFY: Kill the man ... and the god dies.

They were too weak too kill her.

But strong enough to join together and dismiss her from the Dimension they were in and place he in the Prison of Ben?

Again, most of their facts will be born from supposition, trying to understand how she can be.

 

[Schillaci]

GREGOR: What do you know of the beast?

BUFFY: Strong. Fast. Hellgod.
GREGOR: From a dimension of unspeakable torment.

BUFFY: A demon dimension. I know. She ruled with two other hellgods, right?

GREGOR: Along with the beast they were a triumvirate of suffering and despair. Ruling with equal vengeance. But the beast's power grew beyond even what they could conceive. As did her lust for pain and misery. They looked upon her, what she had become ... and trembled.

BUFFY: (nervously) A god afraid?

GREGOR: Such was her power. They feared she would attempt to seize their dimension for herself, and decided to strike first. A great battle erupted. In the end, they stood victorious over the beast ... barely. She was cast out. Banished to this lower plane of existence, forced to live and eventually die trapped within the body of a mortal ... a newborn male, created as her prison. That is the beast's ... only weakness.

Well, Gregor is a fanatic, of sorts. His purpose is to fight the beast. So he must have plenty of knowledge about her..... 'Cept that bit about her only weakness. We know the Dagon Sphere has adverse affects on Glory. The Troll-God hammer also done a fair amount of damage.

BUFFY: Kill the man ... and the god dies.

WILLOW: You know Buffy"” sweet girl, not that bright.

They were too weak too kill her.

Them being gods. If anything, I go with the essence theory. I'd go as far as to suggest her essence is trapped within the dead body of Ben. His death makes it impossible for her to do anything.

But Gods are above simple little things like human emotions and such, I also believe they are above death.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

That is a fact from the series she was banished from her world, The textual evidence is there, That is what happened!!