Is Glory Dead?

Dia DeLa Muerte said:
As for the First in the Guise of Glory, we don't know how that works on anything other then human.
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BUFFY
(to Xander) Can we gag him? (Xander claps and goes to Andrew, putting duct tape over his mouth) But what do these records say about The First?

GILES
Uh, very little. It can change form. Uh, it only appears in the guise of someone who's passed away.

I know that this doesn't go into the specifics of human/demon/god/creature/whathaveyou, but I think that from the writers knew that whatever The First turned into had to be dead. And vampires are dead, Living dead, But still dead.
 
NightHawk said:
Yeah I saw that. But still when he says "created" I take it as this was his purpose not that the other hellgods made him.

I think he meant that in the sense of Glory being able to overcome him and surface.
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Ben: It doesn't matter how I came by it. It's mine. And I plan on keeping it.

OK, I was being polite before. It's clear the Hell Gods created Ben. I'm sure if I could be bothered looking I'd find a quote from one of the writers to back it up.

As for the First being able to take the form of Glory. I reckon it can take the form of anybody that has travelled to or from Hell dimensions.
 
Psychotic Jackass said:
They are strong enough to create a life, but not take one away. Frankly, that idea sounds absurd.
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Well, while I think he wasn't created by the hellgods I won't discredit the possiblity that he was and if you do find a quote saying he was made by the gods to hold Glory that's fine since this thread wasn't about if Ben was made to hold Glory. And since everyone here is so quick to point out the differences between demons/humans/god whatever, you should know that making a human and killing a god can't really be on the same level. After all the monks did make Dawn.
 
I have a theory about that Dawn thing. It's just a theory, so of course it doesn't mean anything, but it might be interesting, I don't know.

Have you ever heard of that theory by the phycisist that goes, altenate realities are possible where any possibility is actually happening?

So what if there was an alternate reality where Buffy had a sister? The monks wouldn't have to create a whole new Dawn so much as merge the realities. Like any good magic trick though, when they pull the rabbit from the hat it looks like they created a whole new rabbit, and the innocent observer might report it as such.
 
Black Eye Guy
Black Eye Guy
Intresting!
W
Wicked
I like that!
nerd4hire said:
I have a theory about that Dawn thing. It's just a theory, so of course it doesn't mean anything, but it might be interesting, I don't know.

Have you ever heard of that theory by the phycisist that goes, altenate realities are possible where where any possibility is actually happening?

So what if there was an alternate reality where Buffy had a sister? The monks wouldn't have to create a whole new Dawn so much as merge the realities. Like any good magic trick though, when they pull the rabbit from the hat it looks like they created a whole new rabbit, and the innocent observer might report it as such.
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I HAVE HEARD OF THAT THEORY! I think it's kind of out there but cool. And as for it applying to Dawn, I dunno.
 
Well not really on her being dead because she's linked to Ben.

i think Glory is waiting for the right vessel to put herself back into, then to be reborn into the earth.
 
Ive just read most of this thread and I believe, shes not dead. For many reasons. Most of which have been mentioned.

But another one. If she could be killed so easily, how is she a God. Surely a big part of being a God is living forever. Otherwise, she's just another demon. A strong one, but still a demon.
 
nerd4hire said:
I have a theory about that Dawn thing. It's just a theory, so of course it doesn't mean anything, but it might be interesting, I don't know.

Have you ever heard of that theory by the phycisist that goes, altenate realities are possible where any possibility is actually happening?

So what if there was an alternate reality where Buffy had a sister? The monks wouldn't have to create a whole new Dawn so much as merge the realities. Like any good magic trick though, when they pull the rabbit from the hat it looks like they created a whole new rabbit, and the innocent observer might report it as such.
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The Theory that for every choice/action there is a universe that does each conceivable 'play out' of the event.
Yes thats something that is plausible, and i kinda believe we have seen a variation on this in the show, 'The Wish'.
Anyanka was not powerful enough, i dont believe, to create an entire new reality, but a universe shift is possible. This allowed Cordelia into one where the verse saw Joyce make a different decision, Cleveland not Sunnydale.
We, i believe saw this again in season 6, with Normal Again.
I don't believe this to be a play out in Buffy's Psyche, but actually the demon poison somehow allowed her concious to combine with that of the other Buffy in a Psych-ward.
Her struggle makes this fight a lot more poigniant because she actually does get to choose which Buffy she wants to be, and does explain why at the end of the episode we get one final look at the other Buffy.

So if these are plausible then surely there is a reality in which Dawn was born.
Think about what the Key did.
It opened up ALL the dimensions(universes?) broke down the barriers.
We know that the Monks tried to use the power of the key.
What if they had found a way to break the barriers between two realities this could explain why the memories of Dawn were so eaily grafted onto everyone in the entire verse, because she actually did exist.
When Buffy did that Spell, she saw both realities instead of just the new mixed one.
 
Aww yay Glory could still come back. If only there were more episodes of Buffy being made then we could notify Joss on the matter 😛.
 
It is said that she is dead.

The explanation is here:

The reason why Glory is dead is because she was a failure...she was being tortured by being sent out of her hell dimension. One of her flaws of being out of the dimension is that she had a price...which was Ben.

Ben didn't ask for this, however. Still though, Glory had a weakness in this dimension. If Glory got back to her home...Ben would die and she would be a full power, however...she didn't get back. She was being beaten up by Buffy and her transformations with Ben she couldn't control.

This caused Glory to turn into Ben at the wrong time and Giles killed Ben. Glory's punishment was having Ben as the key to killing her...they used Ben against Glory, therefore killing Ben and disposing of Glory's existence.

This is all a long way of saying Glory is dead.
 
Anyone half expecting HellsGod to jump out of a closet and start trying to murder us for even THINKING she could be dead?

Anyway, I think Glory is dead. Based on the normal greek mythology they can die. That might not be relevent to Buffy stuff, but I think she's dead. Ben couldn't live without Glory, Glory couldn't live without Ben. Giles killed Ben, thus killing Glory as well.
 
ya Glory is pretty much dead, thus TheFirst being able to morph into her. Ben was Glorys achellies(sp) heel, she needed Ben to live in the mortal world and if he died she dies along with him.
 
I agree that Glory is probably dead. As said by Gregor: Kill the man, the god dies. Because Glory was part of Ben, and he no longer exists, she shouldn't have an exit out and into the world again. She might be alive inside the shell of Ben.

I am not sure on the First taking her form though. This does not mean that she is dead. The first took on the form of Buffy and we had no answers about that (because Buffy is not dead). It all depends on personl opinion.

Whether or not she's dead, I don't think she'd ever be able to come back.
 
Yeah but Buffy had died. A couple times. So had Spike and Dru.

The First probably can just take on the shape of someone who has died. Wether they still are or not. Dont know how it works for non humans though. Maybe they dont have to die for the First to become them.
 
But Buffy died, giving TheFirst its oppertunity to take on her image/personality. If you end up dieing and are brought back, it doesnt take back that you died.

Could Glory be brought back to life? Maybe, but for right now all that we know is that Glory is dead, she died with Ben.

If you think about it, Glory and Ben always took turns when the other one was down for the count, so if Glory was still alive, she wouldve reamerged when Giles killed Ben, and she wouldve taken full control. But that did not happen.
 
I get it (I think). You're saying once the essence of the being is floating in the ether where The First can get access to it, and make a template, that's all it needs.

Makes sense to me.

The question would be, does that floating in the ether state constitute death?
 
ya thats basically what I mean. But in Buffys case, she was in a "heaven" like dimension, everything about her screamed dead, so TheFirst got the oppertunity to take on her form.
 
maybe she died in the sense that she's travelled to another dimension (like someone said earlier) and has left Ben's body. But that happened with Buffy too, and Angel so what says she cant one day come back?
 
Thats all well, but the Demon is obviously different.
Drusilla and Spike have never actually died.
We are told that the host is a dead being, so William and the woman who Drus was have gone, but the Vampire itself is still 'living'.
It, as far as we know, hasn't left this dimension and travelled to another. Its never been released from the host body....yet the First takes on its form.
 
Then there's Opheus though, where it's described how the essence of the demon is released from control of the human host, yet at the same time sublimated within it. Would that affect the vampire model?
 
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