Is Glory Dead?

eunsoma said:
maybe she died in the sense that she's travelled to another dimension (like someone said earlier) and has left Ben's body. But that happened with Buffy too, and Angel so what says she cant one day come back?
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Except Glory was put inside Ben, he was basically born to hold Glory inside. If Ben dieing couldve released Glory from her "hell" im sure she wouldve had one of her minions do the job.
 
Fiver said:
I doubt its possible to "kill" a god.
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This point has been touched on by others (thanks, Hero), but I will comment on this...Gods can die, and every mythology has a death/resurrection myth. The Norse myths are predicated on the coming of Ragnarok, the battle between the Giants and the Gods, which Odin and the rest of the Aesir know they are going to lose, and die in the process. In the Greek mythos, Zeus kills (and castrates...yeeesh!) Cronos. Osiris dies in Egyptian mythology. There are many cases of the death of a god. I like the theory that Glory was trapped in Ben's body (however it was created) and that was as far as the other two hellgods could go toward actually killing her. They used their power to make her vulnerable since she had grown too powerful for them to kill (Gregor at least implied this).

On a practical note regarding multiple sources to "verify" facts in the Buffyverse: Sometimes practically it is not possible to create the backstory necessary before a plotline matures. Sometimes characters just evolve as the story progresses. Good plotting will allow the kinds of backchecking we've seen with other stuff in Buffy and Angel, but sometimes the writers need to introduce a character to tell the story that needs to be told. In this case, it was Gregor. It could be argued he is an "expert witness", having got that nasty-ass tattoo, and then devoting his life to the destruction of Glory. There is no reason to doubt the veracity of his statements, as he is an expert on all things "Glory". The bar for "proof" here is being set too high, IMO...Gregor was the "truthteller" in this arc, the one who gave the information necessary to defeat the bad guy. His knowledge was confirmed when Giles killed Ben...the characters believed Gregor, since Giles went ahead and smothered Ben, why don't we? Sometimes the facts only come from one source!
 
Gregor is a religious fanatic. You can't believe anything he says.

Just Kidding KD. I know exactly what you're talking about. (The guy said it. There must have been a reason the writers had him say it at that particular moment. Right?)

Try pointing out to people what the scripts say in Season 7, if you want an exercise in frustration. People tend to make their own excuses for things and create their own realities when the reality doesn't make sense to them on screen. After they've done that, Hell, Joss Whedon could drop by personally, and show them something like how in Get it Done the script says at least 3 times crystal-clear the Shadowman's dimension contained at least the link to the source of Slayer power, yet 5 minutes later the same person he just told that to will be posting a thread talking about how the PTB created the slayer line.

Fans will reinterpret even the most basic truths of the scripts and call an aardvark a kumquat. I gave up trying to be the upholder of the truth of the scripts. Now I just say, if that's the way you see it, that's the truth for you.

*
 
nerd4hire said:
Gregor is a religious fanatic. You can't believe anything he says.

Just Kidding KD. I know exactly what you're talking about. (The guy said it. There must have been a reason the writers had him say it at that particular moment. Right?)

Try pointing out to people what the scripts say in Season 7, if you want an exercise in frustration. People tend to make their own excuses for things and create their own realities when the reality doesn't make sense to them on screen. After they've done that, Hell, Joss Whedon could drop by personally, and show them something like how in Get it Done the script says at least 3 times crystal-clear the Shadowman's dimension contained at least the link to the source of Slayer power, yet 5 minutes later the same person he just told that to will be posting a thread talking about how the PTB created the slayer line.

Fans will reinterpret even the most basic truths of the scripts and call an aardvark a kumquat. I gave up trying to be the upholder of the truth of the scripts. Now I just say, if that's the way you see it, that's the truth for you.

*
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Wow, N4H, you get a bone, you never let it go do you?...just kidding.

I do see what people are saying, and i understand the whole argument, i just find certain things still being left open to interpretation.
Yes Gregor says Bens death means Glory dies.
Yes we see Ben killed by Giles and Glory doesnt re-emerge.
And Yes, in later years we hear nothing.
My point is, if the death of Ben was so easily the way to kill her truly, then the powers in her previous dimension, who must have been aware she could return, would have finished off the job. They didn't. Is this then because they are merciful Gods, i rather doubt it. I think its justifiably plausible that the death of Ben released her essence, as much as a Humans releases the soul, leaving scope for a return, or at least not a full death...

Ohh and N4H, just making a point on the " PTB created the slayer line." Just want you to know, i have the belief that the PTB's guide theline, but i have never denied that the Shadowmen created it.
 
nerd4hire
nerd4hire
;) lol. I'm baaaad boy.
eunsoma said:
nighthawk thats kinda the point
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You misunderstand me. Not that they couldn't because she's a god and gods can't die, but because they didn't have the power to kill her they were too weak. So they did the next best thing and cast her out put her in Bens body which made her weak and vulnerable to death.
 
Nighthawk said:
You misunderstand me. Not that they couldn't because she's a god and gods can't die, but because they didn't have the power to kill her they were too weak. So they did the next best thing and cast her out put her in Bens body which made her weak and vulnerable to death.
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But again, thats the point. We assume they were weak, yet they can transform her to the hybrid thing with Ben, but don't go further. Surely taking a human life is easier then banishing Glory to another dimension and forging her existence into the life of a human...i mean as Gods they must have had followers, yet we never see any sign that Ben is in a position to be killed.
 
well in my opioion... yes i think shes dead....well coz if shes gone back to her hell demention why didnt she get her minions to kill ben??? instead of lookin for years for the key???
 
plus lets not forget that The First was able to appear as Glory, and what gives you the credentials to appear as The First?
BEING DEAD!
 
I'm still voting for Glory's essence to be alive and well in some form, maybe reborn into another human host....I mean Ben appears to be aging normally, but its assumed that Glory has been here for quite a while, so if Ben is just human, ages, lives, dies, then what was of her before that?
I think its at least possible that someone of Glory's power could exist in an essence, Soul-type form waiting for a new 'host'.
If i'm wrong, i'm sure that i'll be getting that proven.

HOWEVER - The pre-requisite for a human to be taken on by the First is death.
Demons, we can't be sure can we.
Look at Dru.
TECHNICALLY, Dru isn't dead, has never died, the Vampire took over a dead human body, but the First isn't that girl, its Dru. This indicates that the laws governing this are different for Demon and Man.

THEN we have Buffy.
Yes she died, we get that, but she isn't dead when the First takes her form...so how does it do that?
We are lead to believe that the First is a composite of this evil entity and the real person/demon it has taken on.......but my feelings now is that it is just a carbon copy.
That said, if Glory were to 'die' in the transition being to essence(when I say die, i'm using that as a term simply for her release from the body of Ben), then she'd not need to remain dead for the First to take a copy would she?
 
I always thought that Giles just killed her "host" so she couldn't be in this realm anymore, surviving in a "spirit" form, somewhere, and didn't the council say that she couldn't be killed..?
 
well then maybe when Giles killed Ben, it just got rid of Glory from our dimension, I mean Ben wasn't completely gone either was he? His essence would have gone on to a Heaven or Hell dimension right? I guess Glory's did too, this means there is still chance of her getting back I suppose. We can't assume that anyone in the Buffyverse (except for Fred) is completely gone.
 
I think he may be referring to that idea which came out in I think an Amy Acker interview, and a Jeff Bell convention appearance where it was suggested had there been a Season 6, Fred and Illyria would have split into 2 distinct personalities. There's more on it here -

https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=12499
 
She may have come back in the future, but as of now... she is completely gone.
 
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