Is it just me or did Angel suddenly become stronger?

[ukkid09]

:thought:I am doing this thread because i rewatched both shows and i thought Angel suddenly became strong and a better fighter becasue in Buffy he always get his ass kicked come on especially when Kendra nearly killed him!!!!! In Buffy he still had alot of experience of fighting, thats not why he came better. Any thoughts lol

 

[white avenger]

Well, it wouldn't do to have the star of the show get the crap kicked out of himself every episode, so over the summer between Season 3 of Buffy and Season 1 of Angel, Ol' Broody went to a monastery in Tibet (the same one he went back to a couple of summers later to mourn Buffy's demise) and took lessons.

 

[Crazy Flakes]

Well, my fanwank explantation is that Angel was sort of overshadowed by the other characters on Buffy. They mentioned several times that Slayers were stronger than almost all vampires (just see Buffy lifting the troll's hammer easily with one hand when Spike could barely lift it with two hands. Angel even mentioned it himself in one of the crossover episodes...I think it was Sanctuary, but I'm not sure), so obviously he wasn't going to be the best fighter on the show. On Angel, he was the strongest fighter there, so he could kick ass himself without having a Slayer swoop in and do the job more easily. And then, of course, there's the whole "Angel visited a monastery" thing.

But the more realistic explanations involve network and budget things. As WA mentioned, the WB didn't want the main character getting beat down every episode (just like they didn't want them to show Angelus killing anyone onscreen, ergo the whole thing where he was almost an entirely different character on his own show), so they made him seem like a more capable fighter. Also, on Angel, they had a bigger budget and better stunts than Buffy, so he seemed stronger.

 

[ukkid09]

thank for the infor but really buffy can kick the hell out of angel anyday.plus better stunts are ou sure becasue the fights scene seem to boring but buffys it was thrilling like buffy vs faith in grad prt1 do you know what i mean ??

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

The Monastery & Being overshadowed are both good, and imo, correct explanations.

Another explanation to further the discrepancy is that Angel was never really at his peak in Buffy. Which is pretty obvious, and actually mentioned here and there...

Buffy the Movie: During this time, Angel was a vagrant (homeless), living on rats, not having fought for many years. Whistler says he couldn't take a fruit fly in a fight.

Buffy S1: Only a year later, Angel's still adjusting to fighting, but still has no mission in life aside from wanting to help the pretty Slayer.

Buffy S2: It's been around two years now since Angel's been back on his feet. Around the mid-Season Finale, he was pretty tough. Then BAM, ANGEL'S GONE. Angelus is back, and he's nearly as tough as Buffy.

Buffy S3: Angel returns, extremely weakened, to the point he can't even care for himself after 100 years of torture in hell. Buffy & Angel both say that he's nowhere near as strong as normal. He progressively regains his strength, and by the finale, he's taking on multiple Vamps at a time.

 

[clemsgirlfriend]

Buffy S3: Angel returns, extremely weakened, to the point he can't even care for himself after 100 years of torture in hell. Buffy & Angel both say that he's nowhere near as strong as normal. He progressively regains his strength, and by the finale, he's taking on multiple Vamps at a time.

But in Lover's Walk, only a few episodes after Angel comes back in bs3, he is already taking on multiple vamps at a time, as are both spike and buffy, in the big 3-versus-gazillion fight where all the vamps are after spike. Which brings us to another question - why is spike always able to fight multiple vampires and demons and kill them without trouble, and then same with angel later on his show. I can buy the monastery thing as a fanwonk explanation for angel being stronger - he had a mission and trained for it. What about spike?

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

:thought:I am doing this thread because i rewatched both shows and i thought Angel suddenly became strong and a better fighter becasue in Buffy he always get his ass kicked come on especially when Kendra nearly killed him!!!!! In Buffy he still had alot of experience of fighting, thats not why he came better. Any thoughts lol

I think that simply with advanced age just lends its self to advanced ability. The more experience Angel had in life just enhanced his ability as a fighter. Also, plot-wise, it's a smart move.

 

[Perny]

I do think that Angel gained some secret mojo power when he got his own show. Sometimes he's still a bit beat up, but that's not him being weak, it's just the enemy being stronger. Although the secret and mysterious mega jumps (Like in Destiny S5 between Spike and Angel) did seem odd.

 

[Revolver]

Yes. Angel did suddenly become stronger......when he became a vampire.

 

[white avenger]

There's something else to think about. Angelus was always more interested in torture and intimidation than he was in fighting. It probably would be a fair bet that he avoided more fights than he actually participated in. Then, as Angel, prior to becoming inspired by Buffy, he was still more apt to sit alone somewhere and brood than go out of his way in search of a fight. It's quite likely that he learned more about fighting in the three years that he spent in Sunnydale than he had in his previous two hundred plus years as a vampire. Add to that, the century or so that he spent in hell between Seasons 2 and 3 of "Buffy" probably honed his survival and combat skills quite a bit. He apparently even managed to learn a demonic version of Tai Chi while he was there.

 

[DoughnutHole]

I actually noticed this, as I am watching both shows at the same time, with two different people.

Buffy always seemed a heck of a lot stronger than angel on her show... which makes sense.

I also noticed that his character really developed once he got his own show... which goes without saying, I know. But it's just interesting to see how reserved and stoic he was with Buffy... and then how he developed so many different levels on his own show.

 

[Giants Rule 04]

It's pretty obvious to me that Angel started the series as less of a Vampire and more of a Wimpire. The change to badass started in season 2 when he became Angellus and it gradually grew from there. You could tell he was in full Angel mode by the finale of season 3 when he was taking down normal vampires 2 or 3 at a time. Going back and watching season 1 as Angel gets beaten up by common demons and vampires, I find myself yelling at the screen for him to man up. 🙂

 

[atticus]

Angel was very strong in Graduation Day part 2, where he fought The Mayor's army of vamps. He had just drank Buffy's blood , so I'm going to go with my own theory, that Buffy's blood enhanced his strength. 🙂

 

[ukkid09]

I forgot about that ATTICUS !!!

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

But in Lover's Walk, only a few episodes after Angel comes back in bs3, he is already taking on multiple vamps at a time, as are both spike and buffy, in the big 3-versus-gazillion fight where all the vamps are after spike. Which brings us to another question - why is spike always able to fight multiple vampires and demons and kill them without trouble, and then same with angel later on his show. I can buy the monastery thing as a fanwonk explanation for angel being stronger - he had a mission and trained for it. What about spike?

True, but I was referencing Buffy vs. Angel's strength, not Angel vs. Normal vamps. In Lover's Walk, Angel was stronger than multiple vamps, but much weaker than normal, Buffy out-and-out says so (Angel was still recovering).

Why were Spike & Angel so much stronger? Prior to Buffy they were two of maybe a dozen legendary Alpha Male Vampires. There are thousands of vampires, yet Angelus, Spike, Nostroyev, Dracula, Prince of Lies, the Master, and Kokistos are the only ones that seem to be the Big Bads of the demon world.

According to Wesley and his Watcher training, Angelus took the top spot on the list of most dangerous with Spike coming in at number two. The Master said that Angelus was the most vicious vampire he'd ever met, which is a big deal coming form him. And Angel managed to kill both Nostroyev & Prince of Lies. Spike used to hunt Slayers, so those guys were never really ordinary vamps.

Why? They never really say, but the popular opinions are because their lineage is more pure since they're both really close to the Master. Also, they were both handpicked to become vamps by Darla & Drusilla who were really discerning about who they sired.