Is Joss going to kill off an Avenger?

thetopher

thetopher

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So Joss said he really wanted to do this is the first film but felt that he couldn't for various contractual reasons- although we had an 'almost death' with Iron Man.

But he's said that the second film will be 'darker' and hinted at tragedy and such. But will he go through with it? And if so who's going to die? Is any character irreplaceable?


Looking at the trailer, if they were going to kill somebody, my money would be on Black Widow.

There have been hints (online but sort of confirmed in the trailer) that Bruce Banner and Natasha are romantically involved- and something sends Hulk on a mad rampage so that Tony had to break out the Hulkbuster armor- so maybe it was her death?

Plus there was a snippet of a ballet class (I thought of Russia for some reason) and the actual lack of Black Widow in the movie compared to everybody else.
Plus, its not like they can't introduce another Black Widow (they even did it in the comics) and have her replace the old one.

Any thoughts?
 
Up until now, everything in the Marvel movies has followed established canon as set down from as early as the 60's and 70's, with a little tweaking in the time line. The only Avengers team member that I can recall dying was Captain America, so he would be my candidate for the Whedonesque death. He's even resurrected later, which Joss seems to love having his characters do. With that in mind, my money is on the red, white, and blue Avenger biting the dust if anyone is actually going to die.
 
I don't think they will kill off Black Widow. I don't think Marvel is going to give up Scarlett Johansen yet. Also I think Cap is safe since there is going to be a Captain America 3. My guess would be Hawkeye, since he's the most underutilized Avenger, but maybe they have plans for him too. So it's hard to say who they will kill off.
 
Fuffy Baith said:
I don't think they will kill off Black Widow. I don't think Marvel is going to give up Scarlett Johansen yet. Also I think Cap is safe since there is going to be a Captain America 3. My guess would be Hawkeye, since he's the most underutilized Avenger, but maybe they have plans for him too. So it's hard to say who they will kill off.
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Think about it, though. Steve Rogers dies, bravely, heroically, of course, in "The Avengers 2," and someone, the Winter Soldier would be a good candidate, since he is a similar super solder to Steve, takes up his shield and spangly outfit, and carries on the fight, going on into the next Captain America movie, and guess who is discovered to not be actually dead at some critical point, just in time to save the day.
 
Didn't The Falcon recently take over as Captain America in the comics? Or, at least, he did at some point, if it wasn't recently. They could go down that route, if they wanted something dramatic. They'd have to bring Steve back, though, they've already made too much hype with the RDJ/Evans press events.

But @Fuffy Baith has a point. There's only two characters who haven't been confirmed for future movies, even as just cameos or supporting acts. Chances are, if Joss is going to kill anyone, it would be one of them.
 
Lyri said:
Didn't The Falcon recently take over as Captain America in the comics? Or, at least, he did at some point, if it wasn't recently. They could go down that route, if they wanted something dramatic. They'd have to bring Steve back, though, they've already made too much hype with the RDJ/Evans press events.
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I know Bucky took over as Cap while Steve was dead for a little while (lol comics lol), and it's possible they are setting up something similar in the films. If Falcon took over as Cap, it must be a fairly recent development. Comics wise, I've been ignoring Marvel for a while now.

As for the topic, I really hope they don't kill Widow. Action films, and this genre in particular, have a serious problem with the way they treat female characters; killing her off would be such a cliche. I'd hope Joss would be above something like that. But what other options are there? Killing off the black dude (James Rhodes) would be another trope best left dead, and we know Cap, Iron-Man and Thor are going to survive into Phase 3. And Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and the Vision are too new to have much of an impact on the audience.*

So that leaves Banner and Hawkeye. I think Banner would be the ideal choice, as he's a very popular character and it would probably be best to kill him while the fun of seeing Hulk smash stuff is still fresh.

I hope sombeody dies. The Marvel movies are badly in need of something of actual consequence to happen. Coulson, Fury, Groot and Bucky have all had the death fake outs that another one would be too much.

*Although we did see Wanda screaming at some point in the trailer, and killing Pietro would certainly elicit that reaction. On the other hand, it could just be Wanda's in full swing of her inevitable "Marvel woman goes crazy" phase.
 
Unless Joss plans to actually go against existing Marvel canon as opposed to just "adjusting" the various time lines, Cap has to be the one to die. It all just depends on how much pull Joss has with the Marvel Studio executives and how much he wants to stay with what has taken years to establish in the comics.
 
white avenger said:
Unless Joss plans to actually go against existing Marvel canon as opposed to just "adjusting" the various time lines, Cap has to be the one to die. It all just depends on how much pull Joss has with the Marvel Studio executives and how much he wants to stay with what has taken years to establish in the comics.
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The canon really isn't a factor here as the films are their own canon separate from the comics. If the canon was exact, Hank Pym would create Ultron instead of Tony, J.A.R.V.S would be a human and also not the Vision, Widow and Hawkeye would not be founding members of the team, and the Mandarin would be way different than the film version.

It's quite possible that Joss and Marvel Studios will throw us a curve ball and kill Steve in this film, but I doubt it. Their recently announced film slate almost guarantees that if Steve gets kills off it will be well into Phase 3, possibly not until the very end of Infinity War.
 
SiegePerilous02 said:
It's quite possible that Joss and Marvel Studios will throw us a curve ball and kill Steve in this film, but I doubt it. Their recently announced film slate almost guarantees that if Steve gets kills off it will be well into Phase 3, possibly not until the very end of Infinity War.
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Yea they have their movies planned out for like the next 6 or 7 years so it would have to be a character that's not going to show up in those movies. So that rules out Thor, Cap, Iron Man and most likely Black Widow. Bruce Banner is an interesting choice since Marvel has no plans for another Hulk solo movie, but I think Banner said in the first Avengers that he can't die. Quicksilver is a possibility, like Hawkeye, but Rhody is a good choice too. I really can't wait to see this movie to see how it all turns out and how everything changes.
 
Well, as said, either they have to do some bits of the Civil War storyline (if that's even possible) and kill off Cap (which let's face it, if you're going to do it, do the whole Civil War storyline) or they have to banish Hulk which would usher in the World War Hulk storyline. And I'm sure Joss could make everyone think Hulk was dead.
 
There's no way it's Cap. Cap could die at the end of Cap 3, and have either Falcon or Bucky take over, but Civil War is too big a storyline to bring in a new captain America on.

The comics canon is irrelevant to the movies canon. They haven't just tweeked it, they've completely changed it, from founding members, to who invented ultron, the entire idea of the Mandarinin IM3 or not being able to use the word mutant. Which is a good thing, they shouldn't stick to the comics canon.

I doubt Joss gets much say in who dies unless it's in line with what Marvel wanted and they already had it planned, or took on his idea.

Though seeing how they have a hulk that has a space based story, and a group space based characters they will eventually need to connect to the earth character, I'd say that is a likely story.

If they kill their only real female main character people are gonna go crazy, especially since they're not launching Captain Marvel till 2018(or whenever)
 
I doubt anyone would be killed off. The most likely choices would be Renner's Hawkeye or Smulder's Hill, but I believe Hill will play a large part in Cap3 Civil War and Renner has two movies left in his contract. And certainly, it would NOT be Whedon's decision. There is too much at stake for Disney to let him willy nilly make decisions based on whims.
 
I wouldn't put it past Marvel to basically think it's ok to kill off Black Widow now that they have another girl on the team and will have Captain Marvel in it in the future. And then they'd point fingers at DC and be all "see guys, now they only have one female on the team, look how superior and forward thinking we are!!"

I've heard rumors at some point of Hulk being in the Guardians sequel for a "Planet Hulk" storyline. I kind of hope it isn't true, only because it will likely involve him "dying" in this film only to be revealed to be alive later. The same thing they've done four times already. Plus I'd rather they introduce more "Guardian" characters like Adam Warlock and Phyla-Vell over spending screen time on the Hulk.
 
With Scarlet Witch and now Mockingbird in AoS they have a couple more possible female Avengers- plus, as I pointed out, they could simply bring in another 'Black Widow' with a similar level of training.
There seems to be a lot of 'super-agent' type characters running around the Marvel-verse theses days.

Hulk: Possible if they want to do a 'fake-out' death for him to come back later. I think it would be a weak choice, kinda predictable.

Cap and Iron Man- nope, not gonna happen, if they are going to do a 'Civil War' storyline then they'd need these two in it.

Hawkeye- Possible, but it would lack a lot of impact since he's barely fleshed out as a character. Also I heard that he has a much bigger role in Avengers 2.

Thor- I've heard that a couple of Asgardians have cameo's in A2 and I'm wondering if something bad might happen to Thor. Not death exactly but something significant that will lead into Thor 3.

I still think Black Widow is the most likely candidate- but its not like I want it to happen (SJ's portrayal has grown on me a lot since IR2. She was great in the latest Cap film),
I just know that Joss mentioned that he would try and do something dramatic like that if he could get away with it. (Like 'killing off' Shadowcat at the end of his Astonishing X-Men run)
 
I'm not a big fan of Avengers, no that I don't enjoy it, I've just never really been into the fandom and it's too much work to catch up on my hero knowledge lol. But I'd have a hard time seeing Joss as a feminist if he ever killed Black Widow. Just because there "might" be other female superheros coming to the screen soon, it's no excuse to kill this character. It might make a good story but it would be idiotic on a social level. A lot of people might not even notice, but I've experienced first hand the impact the character made on young girls and the way they view female characters. I rarely ever think this way, but in this case the message is more important than the story. Ya, I'd be pissed if it happen.

But I have faith that Joss won't do something like that, I just don't really see who else he could kill though.
 
Joss isn't afraid of fridging female characters if he thinks it will advance his story. He's done it many, many, many times. He wouldn't even blink an eye at the idea of killing Natasha.

But in saying that, I don't think he'd be allowed. People are screaming, begging, making deals with the devil to get a Black Widow movie. Yes, they could replace her with someone else, but SJ owns this character now, she's made Natasha what she is. Killing her off and bringing someone in to replace would be like a kick in the teeth, and people are not going to react well to that. People are already blowing up over the rumoured Banner/Natasha romance of A2.

What about Falcon? Has he been confirmed for Cap 3?
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
He supposedly has a 6 picture deal
Come to think of it, did Joss plan on killing Coulson for real? Or was it his idea to bring Coulson back for Agents of Shield?

Lol, Joss may get fed up and leave if Marvel Studios doesn't let him satisfy his bloodlust.
 
Lyri said:
Joss isn't afraid of fridging female characters if he thinks it will advance his story. He's done it many, many, many times. He wouldn't even blink an eye at the idea of killing Natasha.
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I'm not too sure of this. I mean, I know he has killed female characters before, but never in the setting that BW is in right now. It's different when you're killing off Buffy, or Fred, or women who are surrounded by other powerful women on a TV show where Joss has the ability to write as many strong women as he'd like. Black Widow is different because she's the only superhero we have out there currently on the big screen who is a woman (aside from X-Men, which is still heavily men focused). So I don't think BW's potential death can be compared to another Joss Whedon death. Whether he would do it or not? He still probably would, and he might, I just don't think it's really comparable to what's he's written in the past.
 
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