Is Riley basically a stronger Xander?

[Joshua]

I've been wondering this for awhile now, but does anybody else think that Riley is basically a smarter, and stronger version of Xander? They both have the same comical feel to imo

 

[brinkster130]

No. I agree that Riley is stronger and smarter than Xander, but I never really saw the two of them as interchangeable. Riley was a love interest who turned into a good friend and ally whereas Xander has, for the most part, been a brother type friend to Buffy. Outside of fighting demons (and being Buffy's allies) I never really thought Riley and Xander had a whole lot in common; especially as far as religion, ethics, personal interests etc. go.

 

[BuffyElevated]

No. I agree that Riley is stronger and smarter than Xander, but I never really saw the two of them as interchangeable. Riley was a love interest who turned into a good friend and ally whereas Xander has, for the most part, been a brother type friend to Buffy. Outside of fighting demons (and being Buffy's allies) I never really thought Riley and Xander had a whole lot in common; especially as far as religion, ethics, personal interests etc. go.

This, exactly. I feel there are a lot of differences within the characters. The only real things they had in common was that they were both normal guys with no super strength, who faught demons to help in the fight against evil.

 

[Ripper666]

I think that Riley isn't smarter or better than Xander. Stronger yes, he's a soldier. Anyway I can't remember a scene except the one inwhich Buffy left him that was hard for him. Xander lost so much and he lost it innocent, Riley lost his love because he was too suspicious! Riley never really fought for the things he thought were right, he just did what the "Initiative" told him! He has a very loyal side but that's all in my eyes. Anyway he is a great character.
Xander hadn't had the soldier-education but he still tried to help whereever he could! Of course he couldn't be as effective as Riley. But the things he did, he did them with heart. He did it for the people he loves and he sacrifies a lot for them. Riley didn't. Riley took vampire-drugs because he had to hide before his problems. He left Buffy because he didn't saw other ways to handle with problems. Xander had much more, worse problems than Riley. Of course he didn't handled them all succesfull, some of them really beat him down but he always stands up. Again and again. Riley only helped Buffy, Xander helped the hole Scoobie Gang. He is absolutely stronger than Riley.

 

[EvilWillow]

Nah, Xander is much to nerdy for them to be alike. Riley was very different in my opinion. He was stronger and smarter, and had a "manliness" to him that Xander just didn't have. Except when he dressed up as a soldier in season 2.....oh man. 😛

Edit - Woo hoo! 300 posts 😀

 

[SlayerFest]

Xander was too big of a nerd haha and Riley was less of a...well, doofus.

 

[PassionBecoming]

Not at all. They have completely different personalities and functions within the group.

Xander is the loyal, comic-relief kind of guy. He is helpful in his own way, but isn't really a "fighter" per se.

Riley was strong and independent in his own right. He had a life outside of the group (at the beginning, anyway) and has more of a macho/take-charge kind of attitude.

 

[brinkster130]

I think that Riley isn't smarter or better than Xander. Stronger yes, he's a soldier. Anyway I can't remember a scene except the one inwhich Buffy left him that was hard for him. Xander lost so much and he lost it innocent, Riley lost his love because he was too suspicious! Riley never really fought for the things he thought were right, he just did what the "Initiative" told him!

Riley left the Initiative when he found out what they were doing. That was him going against everything he had ever been told, giving up the career he had worked hard for and risking serious punishment. He did more than just obey orders.

 

[PassionBecoming]

Riley left the Initiative when he found out what they were doing. That was him going against everything he had ever been told, giving up the career he had worked hard for and risking serious punishment. He did more than just obey orders.

Exactly. He worked with the military because that was his career and all he knew. Once he saw the other side of demon-fighting and that all isn't just black and white, he left to do what he thought was truly the right thing. And that had to be hard for him for many reasons.

 

[kittenpoker]

Riley left the Initiative when he found out what they were doing. That was him going against everything he had ever been told, giving up the career he had worked hard for and risking serious punishment. He did more than just obey orders.

Right. that always impressed me about riley. And that he wasn't threatened by buffy's attitude - the questioning of everything - even though it was so foreign to him.

And to answer the original question, no, I don't think they are overly similar. I find both riley and xander to be a unique and wonderful character in his own way.

 

[Ripper666]

Riley left the Initiative when he found out what they were doing. That was him going against everything he had ever been told, giving up the career he had worked hard for and risking serious punishment. He did more than just obey orders.

Really? What else did he do than obey orders? Give me an example! He left the Initative. Of course he left the Initative. They pumped him full with drugs! They tried to hurt the person he loves the most! Buffy. But he did it just for her and for noone else. He did never tried to safe innocent people what Xander did. I just want to know what would have happend if Prof. Walsh would have told him that he had to kill human beeings in a war instead of monsters. Would he have done that too? Would he deny the order? I don't think so! But I still like him as character in BTVS.

 

[PassionBecoming]

Really? What else did he do than obey orders? Give me an example! He left the Initative. Of course he left the Initative. They pumped him full with drugs! They tried to hurt the person he loves the most! Buffy. But he did it just for her and for noone else. He did never tried to safe innocent people what Xander did. I just want to know what would have happend if Prof. Walsh would have told him that he had to kill human beeings in a war instead of monsters. Would he have done that too? Would he deny the order? I don't think so! But I still like him as character in BTVS.

Well, when you're in the military, you obey orders. Period. For him to leave, especially the way he left, is very unheard of and takes a LOT of balls. He didn't leave the Initiative because they drugged him, though that was a factor. He left because he realized there was more to fighting evil than just demons = bad, and he wanted to be on Buffy's side of fighting. After he left the Initiative, he fought with Buffy and the Scoobies many times. To me, that is amazing because he gave up his entire career to fight with Buffy and to what he believed was the right thing.

 

[Ripper666]

Well, when you're in the military, you obey orders. Period. For him to leave, especially the way he left, is very unheard of and takes a LOT of balls. He didn't leave the Initiative because they drugged him, though that was a factor. He left because he realized there was more to fighting evil than just demons = bad, and he wanted to be on Buffy's side of fighting. After he left the Initiative, he fought with Buffy and the Scoobies many times. To me, that is amazing because he gave up his entire career to fight with Buffy and to what he believed was the right thing.

I agree with a lot you said. For example that it was very brave from him to leave the Initative for Buffy. But on the other side he had no other chance it was just something like Buffy and the council of watchers. They cheated and abused him, it would be a stupidiy to keep on working for them. His career could never be succesfull in the Initative because he is too honest, he questioned every handling after a while and he knew that. his career was no reason for him in my eyes. Riley could never be a stronger Xander because their hole character, their hole life was so different. It's just as if you want to compare Buffy and Faith. Was Buffy a stronger Faith? It doesn't work, understand what I want to say?

 

[PassionBecoming]

I agree with a lot you said. For example that it was very brave from him to leave the Initative for Buffy. But on the other side he had no other chance it was just something like Buffy and the council of watchers. They cheated and abused him, it would be a stupidiy to keep on working for them. His career could never be succesfull in the Initative because he is too honest, he questioned every handling after a while and he knew that. his career was no reason for him in my eyes. Riley could never be a stronger Xander because their hole character, their hole life was so different. It's just as if you want to compare Buffy and Faith. Was Buffy a stronger Faith? It doesn't work, understand what I want to say?

I agree that he's not necessarily stronger than Xander. Like Buffy and Faith, they have different strengths and weaknesses. I just disagree that Riley can only "obey orders" and has never done any good on his own.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I agree he's stronger and smarter, I would also say he's less annoying

 

[OhWow]

Really? What else did he do than obey orders? Give me an example! He left the Initative. Of course he left the Initative. They pumped him full with drugs! They tried to hurt the person he loves the most! Buffy. But he did it just for her and for noone else. He did never tried to safe innocent people what Xander did. I just want to know what would have happend if Prof. Walsh would have told him that he had to kill human beeings in a war instead of monsters. Would he have done that too? Would he deny the order? I don't think so! But I still like him as character in BTVS.

I don't think he necessarily left the Initiative entirely because of Buffy and the drugs. New Moon Rising (?)- Riley saw the treatment of Oz and realized that the Initiative was way too black and white to do any real good. Riley saved Oz because he wouldn't take orders that would harm innocent people, he saved him on his power and his own will. At that time Riley didn't even know about the drugs and he still rebelled.

 

[Tome]

Like others have said, Riley and Xander might have had a thing or two in common, but they definitely were very different in general. [MENTION=11103]PassionBecoming[/MENTION] said it best. 🙂 They're both awesome, tho.

 

[PassionBecoming]

[MENTION=11629]Ripper666[/MENTION] I think in your first post it came off like that. Glad to have another Riley liker on board! 🙂

 

[brinkster130]

Really? What else did he do than obey orders? Give me an example! He left the Initative. Of course he left the Initative. They pumped him full with drugs! They tried to hurt the person he loves the most! Buffy. But he did it just for her and for noone else. He did never tried to safe innocent people like Xander did.

He left the Initiative when he found out how corrupt they were and he learned that as far a demons go there is not a black and white, good and bad line that can be drawn. With the new information and outlook he had on demons he realized that the Initiatives approach wasn't one that would work and was cruel. He felt betrayed by Maggie when she tried to harm Buffy but that isn't what made him walk away.

Riley was a nice guy and did try to save innocent people. Like [MENTION=11220]OhWow[/MENTION] said, New Moon Rising is a good example of Riley helping people. Some other examples off the top of my head:
-We saw Riley hanging a banner that reads, "UC Sunnydale Lesbian Alliance" at UCSunnydale for another student; clearly he was willing to lend a helping hand when needed.
-Riley talking to Willow when she was sad about Oz. He didn't know what to say to comfort her but he cared enough to see that she was in pain and could use a friend.
-In the episode Hush, when everyone lost their voice Riley is out and about in the town helping keep the peace. We see him breaking up fights and trying to reassure people that things will be ok.
-In Who Are You Riley shows concern for the people in the church who are being held prisoner by a group of vamps. He knows he alone (especially while injured) can take on numerous vamps, but he calls for back up and does what he can to help them.

I don't want to take away any of the good deeds that Xander has done, but he was a regular on the show all seven season so of course we saw him helping people more than we saw Riley. I think it is safe to say that both men had careers or lead a life which served to help save innocent people. 🙂

I just want to know what would have happend if Prof. Walsh would have told him that he had to kill human beeings in a war instead of monsters. Would he have done that too? Would he deny the order? I don't think so! But I still like him as character in BTVS.

Yes, if Riley was a solider in war he probably would have killed humans. What solider wouldn't? In war its often kill or be killed. Would Riley have killed humans rather than monsters in Sunnydale if he had been ordered to? No. Never, Riley was far to good a person to blindly follow orders like that. Riley (and the Initiative) had limited information about demons and a very weak understanding of them so it is understandable why they believed all demons were bad; many of them were after all. The Initiative soldiers believed they were protecting the civilians by capturing these monsters; I have a very hard time believing any of them would start killing the humans they had been protecting if Prof. Walsh asked them too.

Remember when Riley pulled the chip out of his arm and later when he refused to accept government help when he had health issues? What about this exchange with the Colonel?
COLONEL: You're a dead man, Finn.
RILEY: No, sir. I'm an anarchist.
(He punches the Colonel in the face and walks away.)

None of those would have happened if all Riley could do was take orders. 😉

 

[white avenger]

Something that I never really understood about Riley "leaving the Initiative" is the fact that he, apparently is in the Army, assigned to assist the Initiative in their work in Sunnydale. Even though he might have worn civilian clothes, that in no way whatsoever relieves him of his responsibility. Leaving the Initiative, refusing to obey orders, even though those orders might be issued by a civilian, constitutes desertion, which is a crime punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice by a prison sentence in peace time, and up to execution in time of war. In other words, you don't just walk away from your duty station just because you don't happen to agree with the policies there. And, with a record of doing so, you aren't ever allowed to just hop on a helicopter and fly away to another Army base, all transgressions forgotten and rank restored, no matter how good you might have been at what you did. At least, not in the real world. I just wanted to point that out.

Now, as to whether Riley is a stronger version of Xander, no, I don't think so. He almost certainly is, however, what Xander wants to be when he grows up. Assuming that he ever does grow up.