Is The Slayer Stronger Than Vampires?

[white avenger]

This has come up in several threads, and I'm not sure when, or if, it was ever actually established. Is Buffy stronger than vampires? I remember Luke's statement from "Welcome To The Hellmouth," "You're strong. I'm stronger." and Angel once saying that Buffy could hit "a bit harder " than he could, which would seem to me to indicate that, while she may be as strong as, or even stronger than, some vampires, there are others who are stronger than she is.

Physical size and strength aren't all that necessary to be a superior fighter, which Buffy obviously is in most cases, but, to me at least, having her just arbitrarily stronger than every opponent that she meets takes all the fun out of the contest. I think that it's more interesting if the Slayer matches her superior fighting skill against the vampire's or demon's greater strength. That way, there's a bit more suspense and even danger involved.

 

[Blaze]

I think she is, or else she wouldn't win as many fights so easily. We see her slay a vamp almost every episode, and most often than not this is done very easily. Skill and intelligence are important, especially against big bads that ARE stronger like Adam or Glory, but I think the regular vampire is weaker to the point where even a slayer without too much training could slay them. Most fight seen with vamp are straight to the point, kick their ass until you can slay them. This is almost purely strength. When Buffy actually strategies or is out-strength by the oponent, we see fights like we've seen with Glory, the ubervamp (at least the first one appeared to be stronger than Buffy), Willow etc.

I think it's more the other way around, some specific vampire might be stronger than her, but they are the exception. Most would be weaker. Maybe this come from the essence of the first slayer coming from a demon stronger than a vamp. This especially makes sense seeing that vampires or pretty low on the demon list when it comes to strength.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Well, we know that her and Spike are almost of equal strength. When they fight, there often isn't a clear winner. It wouldn't seem to make sense if she wasn't stronger...considering.

But it's worth noting that she is not only gifted with strength, but also training to kill vampires. Maybe it's not just her strength that is needed, but also planning, strategy, etc. In other words, it's the whole package that makes her effective right?? Her smarts, skills, training AND strength.

 

[Robb Stark]

I think it varies. Not every vampire is of equal strength and power, but I would say for the most part yes, Buffy has the physical advantage over the majority of them. There are vampires though, where that isn't the case. It seemed pretty clear that The Master, Luke and Kakistos were all superior to her in terms of sheer strength.

I've always thought of Spike as the better fighter, while Buffy has a slight edge in strength. Angel and Spike seem to be of relatively equal strength to one another, and of course as you said, Angel mentions that Buffy hits harder than he does.

It's an interesting combination. Buffy and Spike tie almost every fight they ever have, while Angel and Spike have both defeated one another pretty cleanly. Buffy beats Angelus in a straight up fight in "Becoming", but it's also worth mentioning that Angelus was vastly smarter than Buffy strategically. I mean, if he hadn't been so arrogant he could have killed her, easily, several times over.

So yeah, I think Buffy is physically superior to the majority of vampires, but there are a few who top her.

 

[white avenger]

I think it varies. Not every vampire is of equal strength and power, but I would say for the most part yes, Buffy has the physical advantage over the majority of them. There are vampires though, where that isn't the case. It seemed pretty clear that The Master, Luke and Kakistos were all superior to her in terms of sheer strength.

I've always thought of Spike as the better fighter, while Buffy has a slight edge in strength. Angel and Spike seem to be of relatively equal strength to one another, and of course as you said, Angel mentions that Buffy hits harder than he does.

It's an interesting combination. Buffy and Spike tie almost every fight they ever have, while Angel and Spike have both defeated one another pretty cleanly. Buffy beats Angelus in a straight up fight in "Becoming", but it's also worth mentioning that Angelus was vastly smarter than Buffy strategically. I mean, if he hadn't been so arrogant he could have killed her, easily, several times over.

So yeah, I think Buffy is physically superior to the majority of vampires, but there are a few who top her.

To say that Buffy is a stronger fighter than most or all vampires doesn't necessarily mean that she can lift more weight than they can. More accurately, it means that she has superior skill in fighting technique, a combination of speed, agility, balance, and, yes, physical strength. No single factor necessarily has to be superior to the average vampire as long as the combination is. As for Angel saying that Buffy can hit harder than he can, that could also be described as being equal or even less strength than he himself has, but better technique in striking a blow.

A perfect example of stronger technique equaling a more powerful blow is in this video (you can skip to the end if you don't care about the preliminaries)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wxe3u-K8H8

Obviously, far more than simple physical strength alone is required to generate power like this.

 

[Kean]

Well, we know that her and Spike are almost of equal strength. When they fight, there often isn't a clear winner. It wouldn't seem to make sense if she wasn't stronger...considering.

But it's worth noting that she is not only gifted with strength, but also training to kill vampires. Maybe it's not just her strength that is needed, but also planning, strategy, etc. In other words, it's the whole package that makes her effective right?? Her smarts, skills, training AND strength.

I have disagree here. In The Gift, Spike tries to pick up Olaf's hammer and he can't so much as budge it, but Buffy comes along and lifts it up like it's a pencil. Plus, on the tower Spike struggled with Doc and he got the best of him while Buffy swatted Doc aside like he was a fly.

Also, in Sanctuary Angel tells Buffy, "In case you have forgotten, you're a little bit stronger than I am."

I don't think the fighting is much of an indication because the outcome of it is dictated by the story, not the actual strength of the fighters. Even though Buffy is stronger than both Spike and Angel we know they aren't going to die because they are permanent characters on the show. The show mostly uses fledglings and vampires of no real import to the story to show how slayer is stronger than vampires.

 

[Sweet J]

The show mostly uses fledglings and vampires of no real import to the story to show how slayer is stronger than vampires.

Sure that's generally true, but numerous times the show displays buffy as physically weaker than some vampires.

Luke, Andrew Borba and Kakistos, which were previously mentioned, are three of the prominent examples that spring to mind.

 

[Kean]

Sure that's generally true, but numerous times the show displays buffy as physically weaker than some vampires.

Luke, Andrew Borba and Kakistos, which were previously mentioned, are three of the prominent examples that spring to mind.

That seems to have more to do with fighting skill and experience than strength. The first two vamps were in S1 when Buffy's fighting is noticeably less honed than it is in later seasons. While with Kakistos he is so old and experienced that his hands are cloven. And lets not forget to mention the fact that Buffy killed all of these vampires.

 

[white avenger]

I have disagree here. In The Gift, Spike tries to pick up Olaf's hammer and he can't so much as budge it, but Buffy comes along and lifts it up like it's a pencil. Plus, on the tower Spike struggled with Doc and he got the best of him while Buffy swatted Doc aside like he was a fly.

While I'm in agreement with you about Buffy's superior fighting abilities not being totally dependent on brute strength, the reason that she was able to lift Olaf's hammer when no one else could might be more due to magic than weight. She defeated Olaf in battle, therefore she could be considered his successor, and as such, the only one worthy to wield his hammer. It's like the Hulk trying to pick up Thor's hammer on "The Avengers." It was the weapon's enchantment, not its weight, that prevented him lifting it. I know, that's some more fan wank, but it makes a certain amount of sense, considering the physical size of the hammer in question. Nothing no bigger than that would be so heavy that a very strong man, let alone a superhumanly strong vampire, wouldn't be able to lift it unless some sort of enchantment was involved.

And, in defense of Spike, he didn't so much struggle with Doc as Doc tied him up from behind with his tongue, stabbed him in the back, and threw him off of the tower. There was never any real test of strength involved there.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION]

While I'm in agreement with you about Buffy's superior fighting abilities not being totally dependent on brute strength, the reason that she was able to lift Olaf's hammer when no one else could might be more due to magic than weight.

That's just baseless masturbation. There's absolutely nothing in the episode to back it up. Spike cannot lift Olaf's hammer because he's not strong enough. End of story.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I think The slayer is stronger then vampires.

I always took it that slayers are a little bit stronger then Vampires, but not overly strong that they can still be controlled by the Shadow Men.

Spike and Buffy are not of equal strength, that is clealy seen with Olafs hammer. Also how she tosses Doc aside where Spike didn't stand a chance.

She learns in the show that every fight comes down to luck as much as anything, there's no surefire way to be stronger, sometimes she is shown weaker. But her strength isn't physical is magical, she's not bursting with Muscles but can bend iron. Her strength seems to be tied to her emotions.

Sunday was able to kick her ass becasue Buffy was in a bad place emotionally, not becasue she had superior strength.

That vampire staked Buffy by chance.

Buffy and Angelus never really fought till the the season finale and she defeated him.

The Master, Luke and Kakistos - I dont think they were superior to her in strength, The master had her under thrall, when that was gone she kicked his ass no problem. Luke & Kakistos Looked physically stronger, so it's possible they were more of a match.

Spike - Buffy puts him down way more then he has her, the only time I can think of is School Hard? In Harsh Light of Day they fight for a bit, but Buffy doesn't stay down, it doesn't look like his hits are doing much - she also couldn't do much while he had the ring (no point in staking him), once she gets that off he runs off crying. Even the slayer in the boxer rebellion was defeated becasue of an explosion, without that Spike would have been dust - again all about luck.

the reason that she was able to lift Olaf's hammer when no one else could might be more due to magic than weight. She defeated Olaf in battle, therefore she could be considered his successor, and as such, the only one worthy to wield his hammer.

Oh yeah, we all must have missed that when it didn't happen in the show and you made it up, cuz heaven forbid someone diss Spike.
Nothing is ever even remotely suggested to that on the show show, it's even shown to be just heavy as breaks the glass it's resting on.

And, in defense of Spike, he didn't so much struggle with Doc as Doc tied him up from behind with his tongue, stabbed him in the back, and threw him off of the tower. There was never any real test of strength involved there.

Eh they fought for a bit in The Gift, and Doc manages to get his hands behind his back, and even gives him a moment to look at Dawn, if Spike could have he would have done something.

 

[Kean]

While I'm in agreement with you about Buffy's superior fighting abilities not being totally dependent on brute strength, the reason that she was able to lift Olaf's hammer when no one else could might be more due to magic than weight. She defeated Olaf in battle, therefore she could be considered his successor, and as such, the only one worthy to wield his hammer. It's like the Hulk trying to pick up Thor's hammer on "The Avengers." It was the weapon's enchantment, not its weight, that prevented him lifting it. I know, that's some more fan wank, but it makes a certain amount of sense, considering the physical size of the hammer in question. Nothing no bigger than that would be so heavy that a very strong man, let alone a superhumanly strong vampire, wouldn't be able to lift it unless some sort of enchantment was involved.

There is nothing in the story to support this theory other than you wanting it to be true. Olaf is never killed, he is merely sent to another dimension and even when he is still in the verse dimension Buffy is able to pick up his hammer.

And, in defense of Spike, he didn't so much struggle with Doc as Doc tied him up from behind with his tongue, stabbed him in the back, and threw him off of the tower. There was never any real test of strength involved there.

There is no need to defend Spike, I wasn't picking on him, but merely stating a fact. Doc bettered Spike and Buffy barely even registered Doc's existence. That's just canon.

 

[white avenger]

Since at least three people totally missed what I said about Olaf's hammer, and considering the fact that there might be others like them, let me clarify that I was NOT saying that Olaf's hammer had the same enchantment as Thor's, making it impossible for anyone but its true owner to lift it, I was merely suggesting that it might be a possibility, based on several enchanted weapons in various mythologies and fantasy tales, Thor's hammer being one such and in at least one book, by an author named Gordon Black, Ogier the Dane's sword, Cortana.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Since at least three people totally missed what I said about Olaf's hammer, and considering the fact that there might be others like them, let me clarify that I was NOT saying that Olaf's hammer had the same enchantment as Thor's, making it impossible for anyone but its true owner to lift it, I was merely suggesting that it might be a possibility, based on several enchanted weapons in various mythologies and fantasy tales, Thor's hammer being one such and in at least one book, by an author named Gordon Black, Ogier the Dane's sword, Cortana.

white avenger agrees: The point about Olaf's hammer being enchanted was only a suggestion, hense the word "might " before it.

No one missed anything, but what your suggestion based on?Whats the point in throwing a suggestion out there that relevant to other stories but isn't even remotely hinted at in BtVS?

The hammer is shown to be heavy not immovable like an enchanted weapon of other stories. Spike lifts it and it falls to the floor cuz it's too heavy for him. Anya the person who cursed Olaf never mentions that only the person that defeated him can wield it.

Nothing, other then you wanting Spike to be as strong as Buffy, supports your theory.

And maybe 3 people jumped to correct you, cuz it gets a bit ridiculous when the Spike-can-do-no-wrong thing is taken as far as having to defend him becasue he might be less strong then Buffy.

 

[sk]

Regarding Olaf's hammer...
Doesn't anyone else (except for white avenger) think it actually was surprisingly easy for Buffy to lift that hammer compared to Spike?
I mean she lifted it like a feather and Spike didn't manage to get it of the ground.

Personally I don't think Buffy has ever shown that much more strength than Spike earlier.
And that would actually suggest that it is something special with the hammer.

Still, I do think the slayer is generally stronger than a vampire. And that Buffy is stronger than Spike. But not so much stronger like that hammer would suggest.

The strength shown by both slayer and vampires are extremely inconsistent though, like most things on the show are, so in the end it's kinda hard to tell.

/SK

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Regarding Olaf's hammer...
Doesn't anyone else (except for white avenger) think it actually was surprisingly easy for Buffy to lift that hammer compared to Spike?
I mean she lifted it like a feather and Spike didn't manage to get it of the ground.

But he did lift it. If he was pulling at it and it didn't budge there would be a point there, but he lifts it from the shelf and is to heavy for him to falls to the floor.

Plus it just makes sense for the Slayer to be stronger than a vampires, plus we've never seen a vampire beat a slayer fairly.

Boxer Rebellion slayer was killed becasue an explosion distracted her and Kendra was put into hypnosis. The closest is Nikki, but even then it's something that happens when the train goes dark, could have distracted her.

For Spike specifically there's also Doc, Spike seems to be powerless against him whereas Buffy tosses him aside.

I think the show clear establishes Buffy is stronger. Who's the better fighter is a completely different question, as it all depends how how you fight and the circumstances of the fight and strength doesn't apply.

 

[Kean]

But he did lift it. If he was pulling at it and it didn't budge there would be a point there, but he lifts it from the shelf and is to heavy for him to falls to the floor.

Plus it just makes sense for the Slayer to be stronger than a vampires, plus we've never seen a vampire beat a slayer fairly.

Boxer Rebellion slayer was killed becasue an explosion distracted her and Kendra was put into hypnosis. The closest is Nikki, but even then it's something that happens when the train goes dark, could have distracted her.

For Spike specifically there's also Doc, Spike seems to be powerless against him whereas Buffy tosses him aside.

I think the show clear establishes Buffy is stronger. Who's the better fighter is a completely different question, as it all depends how how you fight and the circumstances of the fight and strength doesn't apply.

I said it didn't budge; that's my bad. Sorry if it caused confusion.

I'd forgotten how he'd picked it up and then immediately put it back down because it was so heavy.

🙂

 

[sk]

Still, the difference between how Buffy and Spike handled that hammer really surprised me when I saw it.

As I said earlier. I'm not denying that Buffy seems stronger than Spike (and vampires in general)
That is definitely the feeling I get throughout the show also.

But I can totally understand why white avanger wanted to find another explanation than just Buffy's strength when it comes to Olaf's hammer.

/SK

 

[The Bronze]

I think the truth is that character's strengths and weaknesses in the show tend to fluctuate a little to suit the story at the time. I've always been of the opinion that the slayer is a bit stronger than vampires though.

I find the point with Olaf's hammer raised here quite interesting, given that we see Buffy lift it with ease and Spike struggle to budge it at all. Assuming there's nothing else to this but sheer strength would this suggest that maybe Buffy has a lower tolerance or weaker defence than some vampires? I'm not sure how else to make sense of her struggling in fights with Spike, Luke and others if she is that superior in strength. Certainly I don't see her lacking in speed or agility.

 

[iShower4free]

I think logically you would think that a Slayer is stronger than a single vampire since they were created to kill demons. I think Angel states that Buffy is stronger than him too when she finds Faith at Angels house in AtS where is he trying to help her and him and Buffy exchange a few punches.