Is there a reason why Buffy And Faith are stronger Slayers?

[thetopher]

So, it seems to me that Buffy and Faith are a lot stronger/better than the other slayers.
We see Buffy take on multiple slayers at one time without breaking a sweat and beating them handily, even some of the 'best' of them such as Satsu.
And Faith is way more skilled than Nadira who was kind of the leader in her little London group.

Is it just experience on their part or is it the fact that they're 'natural' slayers, not empowered by a spell?

 

[Silverspike]

I'd go with that. Imo they're the real deal and just 'cheap' knock offs.

 

[The Bronze]

Hmmm I'm not sure about this one. Being more experienced with years of training and battle behind them could be the reason for them coming across as superior slayers.

I've seen the line of thinking that vampires get stronger as they get older before. I'm not sure if that's ever been confirmed but perhaps it could be a similar phenomena in slayers. Magical / demon strength increasing over time.

I'd probably say it's the first option but the second one seems reasonable as well.

 

[white avenger]

Buffy and Faith may be better fighters than the newer Slayers because the spell that created them wasn't as powerful as the one that was originally cast by the Shadowmen. I know that Buffy said something about Willow being more powerful than all three of them combined, but even if that were so, there's no guarantee that that superior power would allow her to duplicate the spell itself on such short notice. We have no idea how long that it took the Shadowmen to research, perfect, and execute their spell, or exactly how or why the selected the particular candidate to be the recipient of it.

What Willow did might be compared to asking a modern day automotive engineer to duplicate Henry Ford's first car with no more reference than being able to examine a new Mustang.

Plus, Willow's spell was somehow based on something within a mystical weapon, the Scythe, created by the Guardians, not the Shadow Men, so it might have been somehow diluted or completely different than the original Slayer spell. That in itself might be a possible explanation of why no more Slayers were Called until Fray's time, and then only the single one, reverting back to the way that the spell was set up in the beginning, something like putting a computer in "System Restore" (I know, that's not the reason given in the "Fray" miniseries, but her information at that time might have not been as accurate as it could have been, considering the fact that its sources were a demented Watcher and a demon with its own agenda to advance)

 

[Black Eye Guy]

They aren't stronger.

They might be better fighters cuz they've been doing it longer but nothing suggests they are physically superior slayers to the rest.

I can't really remember now but didn't that slayer Faith went to kill in season 8 give her a run for her money?

Buffy is a better fighter than the previous slayers cuz she has friends, she's better than the new slayers because she's better trained, better confidence and has been doing it longer.

We have no idea how long that it took the Shadowmen to research, perfect, and execute their spell, or exactly how or why the selected the particular candidate to be the recipient of it.

What Willow did might be compared to asking a modern day automotive engineer to duplicate Henry Ford's first car with no more reference than being able to examine a new Mustang.

But that really wasn't what happened on the show. Willow didn't create a new slayer line, or seemingly even cast a whole new spell.

I always took it as she modified the existing spell, removed the 1 slayer cap.

So more like asking a mechanic to remove the breaks on an old car you have access to.

Plus, Willow's spell was somehow based on something within a mystical weapon, the Scythe, created by the Guardians, not the Shadow Men, so it might have been somehow diluted or completely different than the original Slayer spell. That in itself might be a possible explanation of why no more Slayers were Called until Fray's time, and then only the single one, reverting back to the way that the spell was set up in the beginning, something like putting a computer in "System Restore" (I know, that's not the reason given in the "Fray" miniseries, but her information at that time might have not been as accurate as it could have been, considering the fact that its sources were a demented Watcher and a demon with its own agenda to advance)

But Buffy and Faith both felt connected the the scythe, the whole point was that it was connected to that well of slayer power, Willow tapped into that power and modified it.
Which makes sense since she didn't do a lot, she didn't set up the coming of age clause or any of a number of other things that would have gone into it.


It's like if I took up kickboxing tomorrow, myself and someone doing it 10 years are both kickboxers but they're going to be better than me just based in experience.





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[thetopher]

Buffy's been seen to take on four slayers at once, beat them all soundly, and not taking a single hit. There's practice and then there's that. 🙂

Also, Geneive was unusually strong (she killed a slayer with one blow) yet both Buffy and Faith took her down no sweat. (Faith was trying to break up the fight and save Buffy from...Rondin? I think- but Buffy had already completely floored Gene, and then Faith herself was holding back and trying to reason with Gene all the way through their fight- then killed her by accident.)

There have been others- Satsu and Simone, who seem to be gifted as well, but no where near the same level as these two.

It's basically unclear whether their powers (which come from the scythe- a mythic slayer weapon) are equivilent to the Shadowmen's 'you now have a demon's essence empowering you now' spell.

 

[Blaze]

Buffy's been seen to take on four slayers at once, beat them all soundly, and not taking a single hit. There's practice and then there's that. 🙂

This sounds like mere experience, not strength. Not taking one hit would give you a HUGE advantage in battle, but that's all skills, not strength.

I guess the only way this will be settle down is if they decide to have an arm wrestling contest or something. Aside from that it's impossible to tell whether it's strength or something else.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I agree with BEG that it's mostly skill.

Carry the same argument over to Spike & Angel. They often kill demons way stronger than them. Skip is portrayed as being significantly stronger than Angel in their final fight, yet Angel won.

Going from Slayers having generally equal strength, why do you think Buffy stated Fray is physically stronger?

They aren't stronger.

They might be better fighters cuz they've been doing it longer but nothing suggests they are physically superior slayers to the rest.

I can't really remember now but didn't that slayer Faith went to kill in season 8 give her a run for her money?

Buffy is a better fighter than the previous slayers cuz she has friends, she's better than the new slayers because she's better trained, better confidence and has been doing it longer.

(...)

It's like if I took up kickboxing tomorrow, myself and someone doing it 10 years are both kickboxers but they're going to be better than me just based in experience.

This.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Buffy's been seen to take on four slayers at once, beat them all soundly, and not taking a single hit. There's practice and then there's that. 🙂

Exactly like Blaze said, that shows skill not better strenght.

4 slayers is a LOT of strength, by your suggestion if Buffy beat them cuz she's stronger, she'd be verging on superhero like strength.
She beat 4 slayers because she has 7+ years on them, and they have like less than a year.

Also, Geneive was unusually strong (she killed a slayer with one blow) yet both Buffy and Faith took her down no sweat. (Faith was trying to break up the fight and save Buffy from...Rondin? I think- but Buffy had already completely floored Gene, and then Faith herself was holding back and trying to reason with Gene all the way through their fight- then killed her by accident.)

I dont know how you define "no sweat" but Buffy and Geneive went blow for blow, Buffy didn't dominate the fight between them, same for Faith. Faith is battered and bruised by the end of their fight, she has more control in the fight, but if you look at the panels it's her skill that lets her move around Geneive, she isn't kicking the crap out of her, and the fact she killed her by mistake means Faith had to put effort into fighting her, if she'd been dominating her she wouldn't have accidentally killed her.

It's basically unclear whether their powers (which come from the scythe- a mythic slayer weapon) are equivilent to the Shadowmen's 'you now have a demon's essence empowering you now' spell.

Well no it's the reverse. There's nothing to suggest their powers aren't equivilent.
It was the same way when we say Buffy fight Kendra, and when she fought Faith. Buffy didn't dominate those fights, she went blow for blow, but she was still a better fighter.

I get what you mean about it being unclear, but for me thats like that saying "you hear hoof beats you think Horse not Zebra"
It makes perfect sense that Buffy and Faith would be better than the newer slayers just given their experience.

And again, the episode does say what Willows spell does:

"In every generation, one slayer is born... because a bunch of men who died thousands of years ago made up that rule. They were powerful men. This woman (points to Willow) is more powerful than all of them combined. (Willow whimpers) So I say we change the rule."

Willow didn't create new slayers, she tapped into the well of Slayer power using the scythe as a conduit and changed the one slayer rule - thats all. So it means the spell wasn't a complex as creating new slayers, she just removed the one slayer clause.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Exactly like Blaze said, that shows skill not better strenght.

4 slayers is a LOT of strength, by your suggestion if Buffy beat them cuz she's stronger, she'd be verging on superhero like strength.
She beat 4 slayers because she has 7+ years on them, and they have like less than a year.



I dont know how you define "no sweat" but Buffy and Geneive went blow for blow, Buffy didn't dominate the fight between them, same for Faith. Faith is battered and bruised by the end of their fight, she has more control in the fight, but if you look at the panels it's her skill that lets her move around Geneive, she isn't kicking the crap out of her, and the fact she killed her by mistake means Faith had to put effort into fighting her, if she'd been dominating her she wouldn't have accidentally killed her.



Well no it's the reverse. There's nothing to suggest their powers aren't equivilent.
It was the same way when we say Buffy fight Kendra, and when she fought Faith. Buffy didn't dominate those fights, she went blow for blow, but she was still a better fighter.

I get what you mean about it being unclear, but for me thats like that saying "you hear hoof beats you think Horse not Zebra"
It makes perfect sense that Buffy and Faith would be better than the newer slayers just given their experience.

And again, the episode does say what Willows spell does:

"In every generation, one slayer is born... because a bunch of men who died thousands of years ago made up that rule. They were powerful men. This woman (points to Willow) is more powerful than all of them combined. (Willow whimpers) So I say we change the rule."

Willow didn't create new slayers, she tapped into the well of Slayer power using the scythe as a conduit and changed the one slayer rule - thats all. So it means the spell wasn't a complex as creating new slayers, she just removed the one slayer clause.

They also trained under Giles & Wesley who were eventually portrayed as arguably the two most competent Watchers ever--aside from Edna Giles and maybe Nikki Woods'.

Wes lacked confidence, but once he found some he was extremely capable in a fight for a human, and Giles was a force in his physical peak. Buffy also trained with Angel & Spike, two of the best fighters around.

It might have been even better if they alluded to some kind of journey Buffy took to train with masters too, ala Bruce Wayne's origins. They wouldn't even have had to show it on screen, it could've happened over a summer break, like how Willow can randomly cite the British Coven as her teachers for random skills.

 

[danajsparks]

The qualities that make Buffy an exceptional slayer are traits that she would still posses if she were just another ordinary human. She's intuitive. She reads others well. She allows herself to feel her emotions and is able to channel them into her fighting. She's self-aware of her strengths and limitations. She (usually) learns from her mistakes. She's quick-thinking, resourceful, and creative. As she says to Kendra in WML2

Buffy: Power alone isn't enough. A good fighter needs to know how to improvise, to go with the flow.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I think that Willow's spell diluted the power to some extent. It seems to me like it's been shown, even if not explained, that Buffy and Faith are stronger in power than the others.

 

[EVIL UU]

It's not strength, it's experience. Compare Buffy's performance in season 1 to that from season 8. That's your answer. Give those kids some time, sooner or later a slayer activated in 2003 will kick Buffy's ass. She will come with skill and bonds of friendship forged in her own battles, dedication and passion for the hunt and the enthusiasm of youth.

 

[thetopher]

Let me clarify- I don't mean strength per se, I mean 'potency'- are Buffy and Faith more 'slayer-like'?

I'm not talking strength, training, or anything like that, but it seems to me that the two 'original' slayers still have some uniqueness about them even if there are thousands of girls who are 'just like them' in theory.

I mean, was the spell used to create all those other slayers 'dilute' the source of the power in some way- none of the created slayers seem to have prophecy dreams (except maybe Dana?), so what does that indicate?

Any theories?

 

[EVIL UU]

Well, the source of power is different. In both cases it's a gut of a demon but it's not a gut of the same demon. This could explain the differences if any truly exist.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Part of this is the personality of the slayer as a potential. Most of the potentials were reluctant to train the way Buffy did. Only Kennedy seemed to relish the training and the fight and was put in charge of training. Her first comment after bringing the scythe and joining the fight in "Chosen" was, "I could get used to this!" The rest of them ranged from accepting to reluctant to antagonistic to the idea of being a slayer.

Some areas of strength seemed to be magically assisted by being the slayer. Spike could barely pick up Thor's hammer but Buffy picked it up and carried it like it was Styrofoam (which it probably was).