"It is never over!" - All of the ways that B/A continued past Season 3

Mrs Gordo

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Black Thorn
One of the more popular arguments is, Buffy and Angel were over after Season 3, when he left her. But the writers would often times come back to the relationship sometimes in big ways and sometimes in more subtle ways.

Let's talk about all of the times it was really all about Buffy and/or Angel past Season 3, not just the big cross over events but the times you felt that Buffy or Angel came up on and how you think it showed that they were still on each other's minds until that last kiss in Chosen or if a comic reader until that last hug in Old Demons.
 
The first one that popped into my mind was one we've talked about before from All the Way in Season 6. From the script:

ANYA
I'm the luckiest ex-demon in the world. To be able to find the one person in all dimensions that I was meant to be with... and have everything work out just the way I dreamed. How often does the universe allow that to happen?

She hugs Xander close, not seeing how her words have hit Buffy right in the Angel parallel.
Click to expand...
 
In "The Freshman", episode 4x01, Buffy thinks she sees Angel at the Bronze but it wasn't him.

Angel comes back to help in "Pangs", episode 4x08 but he avoids being seen by Buffy only to have Xander mention that he was there at the end of the episode.
Angel returns in "The Yoko Factor", episode 4x20 where he and Riley get into an argument.
Angel appears in flashback in "Fool for Love", episode 5x07 where he meets Spike.
Angel returns in "Forever" episode 5x17 to the cemetery where Joyce was buried to meet Buffy.
Angel returns for "End of Days" and "Chosen", episodes 7x21 and 7x22 in time to keep Caleb from dealing a death blow and to be told to form an outer perimeter.

Buffy appears on Angel in "City of..." 1x01, "I Will Remember You" 1x08 and "Sanctuary" 1x19 where things do not go as she would like. We also have one teaser at the beginning of one Buffy episode that shows Angel's home office in LA.

These are the episodes where Angel appeared. Of course, Angel is on her mind much of the time although in Season 6 he seems to be just a memory and Season 7 is mostly the same way until the penultimate episode. The civility of Bangel is a contrast to the erratic development of Spuffy. Even though Buffy appeared to be committed to Spuffy in "End of Days", when she met Angel, she said, "I just want to bask." There would never be an end to Angel's influence even though Spuffy appeared to be a done deal and remained so in the comics except for the Twilight disaster.
 
There are so many little references that I have been looking out for on Angel during re-watch. These are call backs, indications that Buffy and the events of their relationship are not far from his mind. Some that come to mind:

In Judgment, Angel wears his Claddaugh ring. Heart pointing in. I think @Taaroko’s blogged about this episode and talks about how this is a symbol of his hope for his Shanshu. But at the end of the episode he tells Cordy he got ahead of himself, he saw the light at the end of the tunnel and he thought he was already out (something like that I’m paraphrasing). And he doesn’t wear the ring again on AtS as best I can tell. I think it’s because part of getting ahead of himself was thinking he was so close to earning his humanity and making his way back to Buffy.

——————

Dear Boy - Angel explaining to Darla the distinction between what they had and what he had with Buffy.

Angel: "You took me places, showed me things, huh? You blew the top off my head. But you never made me happy."
Darla backs away from him: "But that - that cheerleader did? We were together 150 years! We shared everything. You're saying - never?"
Angel: "You couldn't understand."

———————

In Happy Anniversary Angel says: "Well, the guy is a disaster at love, and nearly destroyed the world. I can relate.” (Which is a call back to Becoming).
 
Ethan Reigns said:
Even though Buffy appeared to be committed to Spuffy in "End of Days", when she met Angel, she said, "I just want to bask." There would never be an end to Angel's influence even though Spuffy appeared to be a done deal and remained so in the comics except for the Twilight disaster.
Click to expand...

Just a few comments I’d like to make:

1. Buffy did not appear committed to Spike in EoD, she says she needs time to figure herself out (to bake), she tells Angel before he leaves that sometimes she does think of a future with him. Joss has said the purpose, which to me is quite clear, is to show that Buff and Angel aren’t over and may one day reunite.

2. Spuffy was not a done deal in the comics until s10. In s8 Buffy is on her own, then sleeps with Satsu, develops feelings for Xander at one point, and finally sleeps with Angel and calls him the love of her life. (I agree that Twilight was a fiasco). In S9 Buffy and Spike are not dating for most of the season (it’s been a while since I read S9 so maybe the get together at the end I can’t recall). So I’d take issue with the “done deal” as Buffy and Spike spent some good time apart. The comics didn’t just jump right into a Spuffy fest. That’s a Season 10/11 deal.
 
@dcai0830 I never noticed the claddagh ring in Judgement!! So thanks to you and @Taaroko ! This has to be one of the best details of characterization/plot and I’m disappointed in myself for never noticing it. This is making me want to rewatch it asap but I’ll wait after I finish my rewatch of s1.

One of my favorite mentions is in Dirty Girls when Faith tells Buffy she took a trip down Angel’s mind and Buffy’s reaction always reminds me of Earshot when she tried reading Angel’s mind but wasn’t able to. I like to think that’s what she was thinking about and why she seems a bit bummed. It’s a very quick moment because they get interrupted but I love it. And I guess it’s another one of the things she can add to the « Faith getting to understand Angel in a way she can’t » list, which is kind of sad.
 
I think while s3 and s4 saw a lull in Angel making Buffy references, s5 was filled with them.

Just Rewards - we see how upset Angel is when Spike says he wants to see Buffy, "You never had her."
Soul Purpose - Angel is upset when he thinks of Spike and Buffy together (or dreams about them).
The Girl in Question - He is dismissive of Nina, "we're just... hangin' out. She's not my girlfriend." and then he is upset about Buffy, "But she's not finished baking yet. I gotta wait till she's done baking, you know, till she finds herself, 'cause that's the drill. Fine. I'm waitin' patiently, and meanwhile, The Immortal's eatin' cookie dough!"

All of these things make it very clear that Angel is still hung up on Buffy in s5. 🙂 Not over.
 
I'm only half way through season 4, but this is one of her conversations with Riley.

Buffy: “Riley, I just... can’t.”
Riley: “Can’t talk?”
Buffy: “Can’t any of it. - I can’t be with you. - It’s just a huge, black pit of a mistake and I can’t go there again.”
Riley: “Again? You’ve dated me before?”
Buffy: “No! Look I was involved... (Sighs) You don’t know what my life is like.”

And this is one later on

Riley: “I’m not saying that you shouldn’t take your work seriously.”
Buffy: “That I should just turn my frown upside down? Is that it? I wish I could. But this isn’t the kind of gig where you can just hang it up at the end of the night and snuggle with your honey.”
Riley: “But why? Why can’t it be?”
Buffy: “Because I’ve tried it, okay? And every time it just fell apart. And then I get sucked right back in to the Uber-evil.”
Riley: “Welcome to the story of the world. Things fall apart Buffy. And evil – it comes and goes. But the way people manage is, they don’t do it alone. They pull each other through. If you weren’t so self involved you’d see that.”
Buffy after a beat: “You have no idea what you’re talking about. You barely know me.”
She walks past him and he stays beside her.
Riley: “I know that it’s not just a job thing. I’m sure that there is some good looking guy that done you wrong in there, too. But mostly I think you want to stay down in that dark place (Buffy stops to look at him and he steps in front of her) because maybe it’s safer down there.”
 
DB once was quoted as saying that Angel's relationship with Cordy was a mirror of his relationship with Buffy. I believe @Grace talked elsewhere about how after Angel came back from to LA after Forever, he seemed ultra focused on Cordy and she theorized that where he couldn't be there for Buffy due to the curse etc, he could be there for Cordy. So I guess the question becomes, is it transference of sorts? Was Cangel in so many ways Angel fulfilling his wishes with Buffy on the safer closer option? Is that a really crappy thing to say?

In many ways, I do feel that Buffy's relationship was about Angel in s6. Her inability to be with Angel and Spike being the viable vampire alternative. I don't think it was all about Angel the entire time but I think that was a factor at play. And she kind of says it as much "A Vampire got me hot, one, you are just convenient."
 
I watched the Buffy/Angel crossovers in season 4. IWRY was obviously a continuation of their relationship, but really, any time the two of them were in a room together, the UST (unresolved sexual tension) was off the scale. In Sanctuary, Buffy was jealous when she saw Angel holding Faith and later when they argued at the end, Angel told her it cut him up inside seeing her but he's not allowed to move on like she has. Then when he apologizes in The Yoko Factor and they laugh at how he was just trying to make things better, you can see they still care about each other. The feelings are still there though they each have to move forward in their respective lives.
 
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
Absolutely! The blow up in Sanctuary just highlighted to me how not over it was for them. Feelings definitely running high.
Taake
Taake
haha, UST, love it
Thinking about Angel Season 1 reminded me of all the Buffy anvils that fall during The Bachelor Party to set up I Will Remember You. First, of course, is the Buffy bookmark falling out of Angel's book (and he has been doing a lot of reading lately). Then we find out Doyle and Harry broke up over the kids issue because Doyle is half-demon. And *then* we find out it wasn't really the kids issue at all but Doyle not being able to accept his own demon-ness. Hmmm... So Doyle and the woman he loved broke up because Doyle himself wasn't OK with his demon side, even though she was fine with it...

Then at the end, Cordelia and Angel are looking in on sad Doyle from Angel's office in the same way that Doyle and Cordelia will be looking in on Angel in his office at the beginning of IWRY.
Cordy: "He's still really hung up on her, isn't he?"
Angel: "Hmm, - more than he knew, probably, yeah."

Then Cordelia says: "Hi, Doyle. Are you going to become loser-pining guy, like, full-time now? Because you know, we already have one of those around the office."

And then it's not long before Doyle gets a vision of Buffy in trouble...
 
Grace said:
Thinking about Angel Season 1 reminded me of all the Buffy anvils that fall during The Bachelor Party to set up I Will Remember You.
Click to expand...

I generally love the amount of respect that Buffy gets in Season 1, first half she is acknowledged as Angel’s love in City of... and Angel is shown to be sad and tries to call her, then as @Grace mentions the set up to IWRY. Following that in Hero we see him grieving the decision he made and Buffy’s loss. In Somnambulist he thinks he sees her in the park and Kate’s voiceover talks about someone getting out of a relationship. In Sanctuary we see his sad reaction to the news that Buffy has a new boyfriend when Faith breaks the news. 🙁 (That moment breaks my heart). And then of course as @Andreana22 says we see all of the unresolved feelings the two have for each other in both Sanctuary and Yoko Factor.

Season 1 of AtS is filled with references and I think even more subtle nods at Angel’s feelings for Buffy.
 
Buffy throws Angel in Spike's face in S10 (Own It. Pt 2). "Maybe we should call Angel again. He's not the type to give up when things get tough" (original emphasis). That's the last time I remember his name being evoked consciously (I haven't given much (read any) consideration to more subtle manifestations).
Oh...and Guys?...Merry Christmas!

490be5982543ecd0bf04636434eae58f--les-vampires-buffy-the-vampire-slayer.jpg
 
Mylie
Mylie
Such a beautiful picture! Merry christmas to you as well!
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
Merry Christmas! Thanks for the pretty photo :)
Antho
Antho
Great pics :) Thank you :)
City Of
* a voiceover ending with Angel saying his reason for coming to LA "started with a girl" (Buffy)
* Angel in a bar talking about Buffy's hair and that she was a hottie
* Angel gets a Buffy-missage pang seeing a young blonde woman and it paralleled Buffy in a nightclub that same week in The Freshman getting an Angel-missage pang seeing a dark haired man
* he follows the blonde woman into an alley (in WTTH, Angel introduced himself to Buffy by following her into an alley, he told her he doesn't bite), saves her from vampires, but keeps his distance since he's tempted to bite her
* Angel goes home and Doyle is waiting there to talk to him about the PTB (in Becoming, Whistler was waiting in Giles's home to talk to Buffy about the PTB)
* Doyle says Angel has been wary around humans because he's been craving blood ever since feeding on Buffy 3 months ago, it heightened his vampire urges (one year later in Buffy v Dracula she tells Giles having Sineya's power in her 3 months ago has heightened her Slayer urges)
* Doyle gives the highlights of Angel's life with a big Buffy portion
* the first official AtS case involved Angel helping a young blonde woman being tormented by vampires (which is how he was recruited in 1996)
* Angel says Doyle thinks Cordelia is a hottie, tying in with the beginning of the episode (Doyle was a 26 year old Irish demon-human hybrid smitten with a teen girl who knew about the paranormal and could use some help)
* Angel calls Buffy to hear her voice
 
I just thought of this - and I wasn't sure where to post so I figured this was a good thread since we are talking about all of the ways it "wasn't over."

In Pangs when Angel says "You know how I feel about her. If there was any way..." (gif above)

And this episode leads directly into IWRY in which - there is a way (if only for a brief time) and in which his first instinct when Doyle says "the question is what do you want?" is to go to her....

Good job writers.
 
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