It just crossed my mind that characters were treated better on Angel...

[Vengeance]

I don't think BtVS was only about Buffy, and if it is, then Angel was only about Angel. Maybe in S7 this is true where it's just the Buffy/Spike show but from S1-6 Willow, Xander, Giles all have their own plotlines and growths. I think it's really just what people have said, chronology. Characters like Angel/Wesley/Cordelia hadn't yet had time to grow but they got that time on Angel. And I don't think Spike was treated all that poorly in BtVS. If you never watched Angel your last glimpse of Spike is him dying a hero.

 

[caitaintdead]

Haha, well, of course. But in terms of Buffy's boyfriends, she's usually the stronger, more important one in the relationship, leaving the other as a sort of sidekick. It makes sense, but there is a point where it doesn't allow for as much character growth.

In your way of thinking, it's also obvious that a show entitled Angel would treat Angel better. 😉

hehe, can't karma you again cause you're the last person I gave karma to but all I have to say is I wish there was a button that would convey wink wink nudge nudge!

 

[King of Hell]

I don't think BtVS was only about Buffy, and if it is, then Angel was only about Angel. Maybe in S7 this is true where it's just the Buffy/Spike show but from S1-6 Willow, Xander, Giles all have their own plotlines and growths. I think it's really just what people have said, chronology. Characters like Angel/Wesley/Cordelia hadn't yet had time to grow but they got that time on Angel. And I don't think Spike was treated all that poorly in BtVS. If you never watched Angel your last glimpse of Spike is him dying a hero.

again, this isn't about character development, its about giving other characters some credit, treating them in a better way.

 

[Kelsey]

again, this isn't about character development, its about giving other characters some credit, treating them in a better way.

Well, I generally consider developing a character to be a way of giving them credit. It means they're important to the storyline and to the show in general. I get what you're saying though, that maybe the writing in Angel was kinder to the characters you listed.

 

[Natasha1988]

Angel gave some Minor characters a chance to grow and shine, it only seems that they were treated better because in Angel they were the main characters and the storys all centered around them, whereas in Buffy they were supporting cast... Im just happy Cordy moved to Angel would have been such a waste if she just left Buffy and that was it!

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I'm pretty surprised at Cordy being used as an example of a well treated character. To my knowledge, Charisma & Vincent Kartheiser are the only two actors who have publicly denounced the route Joss took their characters.

Personally, I think Spike had the best treatment of any character, even if he never came back in AS5. The guy had a tortured journey from villain to hero, and left on a high note.

On the other hand, Willow, Wes, and Angel were all seriously tainted in the end. Imo, Angel has had by far the worst treatment of any character. AS1-AtF might as well be fanfiction, since (Tw)Angel is far from the Champion that Doyle & Cordy molded him into.

 

[Natasha1988]

I'm pretty surprised at Cordy being used as an example of a well treated character. To my knowledge, Charisma & Vincent Kartheiser are the only two actors who have publicly denounced the route Joss took their characters.

Yeah I try to block the whole Cordy & Connor thing out... Im pretending it never happened :tongue3:

 

[King of Hell]

what bugs me also, not only does Buffy take credit for everything & the rest are just either for comic relief or moral support, it also keeps creating continuity errors, ALSO, whenever there's a fight between Buffy & someone, its either Buffy gets her ass kicked, or she kicks the enemy's ass, there's no feedback. it feels like a superhero show but without the superhero cliches.

 

[caitaintdead]

I also wouldn’t say that the Angel cast were treated ‘well’ if you mean by the storylines they get.

Cordelia had, in my opinion, the worst treatment of any character in the Buffyverse.
Fred was punished for being curious by having her soul destroyed.
Wesley had a horrific storyline – both his girlfriends were horribly killed off and he spent the majority of the series in an epic gloom, only finding peace in death.
Spike I would say was treated pretty well in Buffy – his name was the last thing Buffy says and he dies a hero. He also has quite a few Spike-centric episodes.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Interesting post...

I was reading through the pages of the topic "characters u used to hate & now u like..."

I noticed that, each character that appears on both shows, is treated better on Angel, & given the credit they deserve:

That's probobly because the characters who crossed over from Buffy to Angel were given more opportunity to develop - Angel, Cordy, Wesley - so therefore were made more interesting and developed.

-Angel
even though he was "the meanest vampire in all the land", he was too weak, can barely take 1 vamp

-Cordy
she was always treated like the bad side of the coin, even if she wasn't at fault

-Wesley
pretty obvious

-Faith
the B-slayer who never got credit for being a slayer, & was treated like an outsider, she was A LOT more fun & respected in Angel

Regarding Angel, pretty much everyone agrees the character had more potential then just being Buffy's love interest or the Big Bad of the week.

That's why Joss gave him his own show.

Cordy, one of the best characters in the 'verse, was completely ruined on Angel. I'm not getting your point there.

Wesley went from a bumbling inept moron to a badass demon hunter and tortured soul, to yeah, agreed. It's pretty obvious.

-Andrew
I can't think of 1 ep in Buffy S7 that I didn't wish he'd die, in Angel S5, he was funny & not bad to watch

This is where I disagree. Andrew went though almost so character development whatsoever. He's basically a characature. He was the same in Buffy as he was in Angel.

-Spike
Whiny, still living his grandsire's shadow, everyone hated him & disrespected him, a soulless vampire helping a slayer isn't something easy any vampire can do, so he got his soul, yet he was boring & annoying, & never got the respect he deserved...on Angel he was treated waay better, & I liked his character more, & liked his chemistry with Angel & Illyria

Oh my, I have so many issues with this post I'm not sure where to start.

Firsty, Angel still disrespected Spike in his own show.

Not everyone disrespected him in Buffy. Not Buffy, in the end; She loved him. Believed in him. Counted on him. And he certainly wasn't boring and annoying. Spike couldn't be boring if he tried. That's your opinion, though, so whatever. In all respect, what do you think was boring about him? I also don't think he was "treated" better on Angel. If anything, he regressed, yet again to the "comic relief" bit and to Angel's sidekick. It's like the writers completely disregared every bit of development the character went through.

Also, um, Cordy? Her character was completely assasinated on Angel. If anything, at least on Buffy she had a purpose.

---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

I see your point... I think that the reason being for this is that Angel was the "adult" show of the two. While BtVS started out in high school, "Angel" started out in the grittier, more adult world of life post-high school and it was a much darker show. I think the reason the characters were treated "better" on "Angel" was mostly because it was a more adult show and hence the characters were written as more mature.

Nice point. I think was definitely part of it.

 

[sosa lola]

Actually, Spike wasn't treated on Angel any better than he was treated on Buffy. Only Fred liked him, but others like Angel, Wesley and Gunn and especially Cordelia didn't trust him enough and still disrespected him. On BtVS Spike was loved by Buffy, Dawn, Joyce, Willow, Tara, Anya at some points in the series, and in S7, Xander began to accept him among them and defended him indirectly in some occasions when he's being accused of something.

 

[King of Hell]

from what I read, I guess people agree that everyone was better on Angel except Spike, I can see why.
Spike in Angel was like his Buffy S4 self, but wasn't evil, yet he was confident, & finally stood up to his grandsire.
Spike in Buffy was a basement brooding vampire, & soulless chipped Spike was as weak as a scooby, watch bargaining & you'll see what I mean.
ok, so I covered the personality, & strength. about respect, imo he was a lot more respected in Angel, at first he wasn't trusted which was justified, but midway through the season he was one of the gang & everybody trusted him (except Angel), & by Fred's death, he was Angel's most trusted friend (yes more than Gunn & Wesley, if you watched Ats you'd get it).

if a character wants to be strong & a good leader in Btvs, he either has to be Buffy, or a big bad. that's the only thing I can prove, the rest is just theory. Spike, Angel, Wesley, & Faith, you might say Angel was rusty in Btvs, & Wesley was a moron, which both is true, but Spike & Faith...Spike was classified as the strongest of the scoobies in S5 & 6, but what was showed on screen was that he was only a little stronger than them, yet on Angel he was almost Angel's equal in strength & fighting skills. Faith is even the more obvious, in her 3 episodes guest appearances on Angel, she fought like a true slayer, yet the next episode she jumps to Btvs, she's just a few inches stronger than the potentials. (she did get some respect in Buffy S7 though, not like the respect she got on Angel, but she got something)

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Well I don't know about "treated better," but on Angel, by the second half of the season, Spike was unanimously regarded as a champion by the entire team. On Buffy, I'm pretty sure she was the only one who considered Spike a hero...

 

[sosa lola]

I think it was easier for the AtS gang to accept Spike because they didn't know him much and he arrived as an asset. But on BtVS, they knew him when he wanted to kill them and it took time to warm up to him.

 

[Vengeance]

S7 is really the only season that depicts Buffy as the only strong leader. When Buffy is dead/catatonic Willow takes charge quite effectively. You could argue Giles is really the leader in the earlier seasons as he's always the guy "in the know."

 

[dan k]

S7 is really the only season that depicts Buffy as the only strong leader. When Buffy is dead/catatonic Willow takes charge quite effectively. You could argue Giles is really the leader in the earlier seasons as he's always the guy "in the know."

I disagree with that slightly. I got the sense that Buffy's leadership skills grew as the seasons progressed. The way she takes charge in season 3 for instance, laying down the plan to kill the major, by then she was leading effectively.

She was also the person everyone looked too in times of trouble. In "The Gift" Giles suggests killing Dawn yet Buffy is having none of it. If Giles was in control then you'd imagine the avenue would have been explored further but Buffy's blunt refusal means Giles eventually backs down.

When it came down to making decisions, Buffy made them for herself. Even things as small as missing training were signs that Buffy was in control of her own destiny.

 

[Vengeance]

Think you're misunderstanding me. Buffy is a strong leader, I just don't think she's the only strong leader on the show.

 

[King of Hell]

I think it was easier for the AtS gang to accept Spike because they didn't know him much and he arrived as an asset. But on BtVS, they knew him when he wanted to kill them and it took time to warm up to him.

a soul in Ats means more than it does in Btvs. thats why he was respected more.

Think you're misunderstanding me. Buffy is a strong leader, I just don't think she's the only strong leader on the show.

whenever they show us another leader, they show us how incompetent they are, an example would be Faith in S7.

 

[Vengeance]

Yea, that's why I put in my "except S7" clause.

 

[TheVoid68]

Except Faith was actually more logical and effective as a leader, she was just inexplicably incredibly unlucky... yeah S7 went out of its way to try and show that Buffy was the better leader, and did so with some awful writing.