It was a... hello
- Thread starter Urgent Power
- Start date
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
.
I 'spose it all depends on what you see when you're watching....
Here is a livejournal entry i came across from someone who saw plenty of kissin' - written, i assuming, not long after Chosen was first shown.
the_royal_anna: Chosen
white avenger
Whoever the Royal Anna is, whether she ever sees this or not, that was GREAT.
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
I didn't feel like we needed a whole lotta Spuffy shmooshing in season 7. I'm not pissed because Spike and Buffy didn't get any smoochies. I'm pissed because so much of what happened between them was left unsaid... while significant airtime was given to Angel, who had his own show and really didn't belong anymore. I think too much physical intimacy between Spike and Buffy would have been a bad thing. It would have reminded us of season 6 in general (or, if you're anti-Spuffy, of Seeing Red specifically) and worked to undermine positive character growth. One tender, loving kiss could have worked, though, if it was played in stark contrast to anything and everything that we saw in season 6. That could have said a lot, but I'm not sure it was necessary or even advisable.
My point is just that if we were gonna get kissy-kissy face and future talk (which, really, would have been "what-if-tomorrow's-the-end?" talk), then it should have come from the current relationships. More than that, though, I felt that both Spike and Anya deserved a little more time in this episode. So did the core four. More than I wanted to see a Bangel throwback, I wanted to see a tender hand squeeze or something between Xander and Anya. I wanted to see Giles and Buffy at least take a step toward healing the breach. I wanted to see Willow lean on someone other than Kennedy. And yeah, I think at least one non-ambiguous moment between Spike and Buffy would have been nice. Mostly, I just wanted that huge bunch of airtime to be devoted to the present and to the future, not to the past. If Angel was gonna stay and fight with the team, that would have been one thing. But since he left (again), I felt like that time was wasted on him when it could have been used on characters who were actually going to fight (and possibly die) in the finale.
My point is just that if we were gonna get kissy-kissy face and future talk (which, really, would have been "what-if-tomorrow's-the-end?" talk), then it should have come from the current relationships. More than that, though, I felt that both Spike and Anya deserved a little more time in this episode. So did the core four. More than I wanted to see a Bangel throwback, I wanted to see a tender hand squeeze or something between Xander and Anya. I wanted to see Giles and Buffy at least take a step toward healing the breach. I wanted to see Willow lean on someone other than Kennedy. And yeah, I think at least one non-ambiguous moment between Spike and Buffy would have been nice. Mostly, I just wanted that huge bunch of airtime to be devoted to the present and to the future, not to the past. If Angel was gonna stay and fight with the team, that would have been one thing. But since he left (again), I felt like that time was wasted on him when it could have been used on characters who were actually going to fight (and possibly die) in the finale.
Lou
Scooby
I'm firmly against any Spuffy smooching.. specifically in season seven, because of what passed on Seeing Red. It just wouldn't sit well.. I know he's redeemed and everything, but I think this was achieved well enough with how close they became on a romantic level.. without it becoming sexual and complicated.
And uh, yep not just a 'hello' ..or I guess she's saying it didn't mean that they were getting back together right then and there because of the kiss. Maybe there are many forms of hello between those two 😛
And uh, yep not just a 'hello' ..or I guess she's saying it didn't mean that they were getting back together right then and there because of the kiss. Maybe there are many forms of hello between those two 😛
white avenger
white avenger
But in Season 7, Buffy's attitude toward Spike changed dramatically. Almost from the first, (well, as soon as she learned about his soul), she defended him to her friends, even after he hurt Dawn, something that Season 6 unsouled Spike would never have done. From her whole "You may not see it, Spike, but I do. I do. I believe in you." to defying Giles and keeping him around rather that running him off or killing him, even after Spike threatened to, and no doubt would have, kill Wood. And don't forget that she openly slept with him for the last three nights of the season, the last two under her own roof, Giles and everyone else be damned.
It would seem that everyone else, both friends and fans, seemed to hold the events of "Seeing Red" against Spike a whole lot longer than Buffy herself did, and considering the way things turned out, Spike illustrated with his loyalty to her and his self sacrifice in dying to save the world, her faith and belief were justified.
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Not sure what you're not agreeing with me on. I enjoy their romance in season seven, but I appreciate that it wasn't sexual. Mostly because of the subtext of sleeping with someone who tried to rape you before. Having said that I do think that Spike being able to come back from that is and important message as well. I'm so complicated.. heh
white avenger
white avenger
Mostly that the events in "Seeing Red" should in any way served as a deterrent to the Buffy/Spike romance in Season 7' Other than a very few references at the first of the season, Buffy had pretty much put that whole thing behind her. Their relationship after Spike regained his soul was more romantic and more sexual. It just wasn't as physical. The look they shared in the cave at the nd of "Showtime" was one of the most romantic moments in the whole season, and even the Potentials (Rona, at least) commented on how "hot" just the act of their holding hands was.
Buffanator
got Spike?
I am on the complete other end of this arguement. I would have felt utterly cheated and left down if Angel, a huge figure in both Buffy's life and her verse, was not part of the show's finale somehow. I think he had every right to be included in Sunnydale's final chapter, he had earned it.
If he hadn't come then Spike wouldn't have had the chance to go out the way he did or created the connection that allowed him to be brought into Angel. His presence (Angel's) in the finale had a very definite purpose, not just for Bangel but for the continuity of Spike's character. Angel being there was essential.
white avenger
white avenger
A agree (get out the smelling salts, Miss K, here we are agreeing on a Bangel issue again) that Angel was essential to the conclusion, as we saw it at that time, of the Buffy saga. It was part of the "going back to the beginning" theme, and, if for no other reason than to remind the viewers that he was there first, before this upstart bleached out vampire, and if there was any basking to be caused, he would be the one to cause it. He had every right to be there, and the writers used him almost in the same way that the Greek writers uses Apollo as the messenger of the gods, delivering his message, his enchanted amulet, and then returning to his Wolfram & Hart Olympus.
I would've been disappointed if he hadn't showed up, but I would have been just as disappointed if he had stayed to help in the fight, even if it would have mean that he would have been the one to die. Spike earned that. He got his soul to buy his ticket to that opera, and he deserved the front row seat.
SpikedBuffy
Excellent! I totally agree with Angel being somewhat needed, but this was Spike's moment.
I
InsaneMystic
Great post! And anyway: messenger of (the) god(s) = ANGEL!
A
angelchick182
My feelings exactly!
buffy was not seeing spike in season 7 she was helping him becouse he was haveing a hard time with his soul she never agreed to date him and only him. but she did have feeling for him and i disagree but may have love him i belive that she was unsure of her feeling for him and if spike did not die she would have date him. to she did not cheat on him with angel.
a part of buffy belive that angel would become humon and they would live happly ever after, but that is only a deam,, buffy still see angel as her hero and he will take care of her. i belive if they had to have a real realation ship it would not work
to all the spuffy fan i would like one favor stop picking on xander when spike came back with a soul xander let him stay with him, stood up to every one about not kill spike, and showed some kindness to him in season 7 so please stop makeing him seem like he would never let buffy date spike.
a part of buffy belive that angel would become humon and they would live happly ever after, but that is only a deam,, buffy still see angel as her hero and he will take care of her. i belive if they had to have a real realation ship it would not work
to all the spuffy fan i would like one favor stop picking on xander when spike came back with a soul xander let him stay with him, stood up to every one about not kill spike, and showed some kindness to him in season 7 so please stop makeing him seem like he would never let buffy date spike.
white avenger
white avenger
I might be wrong (it happens generally 2 or 3 times a year, and I'm way overdue by now) but to the best of my knowledge, Buffy doesn't know anything whatsoever about the Shanshu prophecy and how it might affect Angel.
As for Angel, or anyone else, as "taking care of her," I think that's a fantasy Angel might have, but Buffy herself knows that she doesn't need anybody to take care of her. In fact, if the last 7 seasons are any indication, she'll be the one taking care of whoever she becomes involved with.
Girl with Sword
Townie
Choosing
It wasn't a hellow, it wasn't a good-bye and it wasn't a choice. It was keeping her options open. I have said this on another thread but kissing Angel; because of their history and his personality, was not choosing him. Unfortunetley, sending him away was not choosing Spike, I think she just didn't want two big piles of dust on her living room floor. Staying with Spike that night was the perfect way to keep her options open. Kissing him(no, I don't think they had sex that night) or telling him she loves him would mean to much, it would be choosing.
It wasn't a hellow, it wasn't a good-bye and it wasn't a choice. It was keeping her options open. I have said this on another thread but kissing Angel; because of their history and his personality, was not choosing him. Unfortunetley, sending him away was not choosing Spike, I think she just didn't want two big piles of dust on her living room floor. Staying with Spike that night was the perfect way to keep her options open. Kissing him(no, I don't think they had sex that night) or telling him she loves him would mean to much, it would be choosing.