Jesse

On the commentary Joss said he was going to have Jesse in the credits just to shake things up in the first episode and show that a possible main character had been killed.

And with regards to Jesse not being Jesse anymore, I agree with it. Jesse wasn't evil enough for a curse, the Initiative weren't about with a chip and (I think I'm stealing N4H's opinion here(if not apologies)) Harmony was depicted as the same in high school giving the view that high school popular cheerleaders are soulless creatures.
 
I never knew any cheerleaders, but if they're soulless creatures I didn't miss much.

I was so emotionally disturbed at Jesse being bitten by a vampire, the blatant disgracefulness of it, he was so articulate with his wordcraft, especially when talking to Cordelia. Jesse was the short guy, right ?
 
It bothers me that Jesse was killed off so soon, and that he never really felt like he was Xander's best friend. It felt like he was thrown in as an afterthought. Was he in the original pilot?

Personally, I think it would have been best had Jesse stuck around for five or six episodes before being turned and dying. He should have felt like part of the Scooby gang, we should have had the chance to care about his character. We know him so little that his turning and subsequent death does nothing for me.
 
Either was Angel and he didn't seem anymore stupid than Xander. For the scenes that he was in with Buffy, Willow and Xander he acted very chummy with the gang.


(Actually, I've never underestimated Angel's stupidity) SOMEBODY in the core group just HAD to either die outright or get turned so that Buffy could stake them. Of the group, Jesse just drew the short straw.
 
Personally, I think it would have been best had Jesse stuck around for five or six episodes before being turned and dying. He should have felt like part of the Scooby gang, we should have had the chance to care about his character. We know him so little that his turning and subsequent death does nothing for me.

That would've had a much more emotional impact on his death from the viewers and Xander together.

I think Xander showed a good amount of grief for Jesse's death. It's in character for him not to cry, he reacts to pain by lashing out, angry kicking, or cracking a joke. That's how Xander mourns.
 
I remember Jesse was supposed to appeare to Xander in Conversation with Dead People. But they couldn't get the actor.
 
That would have been random, especially seeing as how they never mentioned him again.

I found it strange that Jesse wasn't mentioned ever again. Especially since he was a big part of Willow and Xander's life. It would have been cool if they kept him for a few episodes. Maybe killed him off in Prophecy Girl when the vampires were attacking the school.
 
really? in conversations with dead people... i never heard that before....

i just thought they didnt put xander in cause he didnt have anyone deceased to talk to like the others did.... well thats what the commentary said *shrugs*
 
It was strange that Xander and Willow didn't seem to show any emotion for Jesse after he died. I suppose it was the only way for the show to go. Introducing new characters while trying to get them to grieve for a best friend, I don't think, would have worked as well.
 
I think it was amazing how Xander, Willow and Jesse were bestfriends pre - Buffy, yet he dies and they're like "Damn", and Xander kicks something... then it's like all over lol
 
I think it was too early in the season, it being the first episode and all, for them to do a proper mourning process. We didn't know Jesse so we weren't too bothered about the loss- they basically used the character to show us 'Hey, in this show people will die'.
We were allowed to see that Willow and Xander were broken by the loss, but there were bigger things going on; like stopping other people turning out like Jesse. Hence the minimum mourning time
 
I think it was amazing how Xander, Willow and Jesse were bestfriends pre - Buffy, yet he dies and they're like "Damn", and Xander kicks something... then it's like all over lol

Don't forget Xander's line right after he kicked that box, "I don't like vampires." Think Xander overdid mourning Jesse throughout the show. 🙂
 
It annoyed me how Xander and Willow didn't seem all that distraught, when it seemed like Jesse was their friend since they were little kids. For one, they'd never seen a vampire before, and then they lost their best friend? Wouldn't you expect them to be at least a little bit depressed? Nobody seemed to recognize that a guy who was only 15 or 16 years old had just been killed!
 
they probably did mourn him but Joss just decided not to actually show us, or maybe they just reacted differently because they had just found out about vampires.
 
I think it was too early in the season, it being the first episode and all, for them to do a proper mourning process. We didn't know Jesse so we weren't too bothered about the loss- they basically used the character to show us 'Hey, in this show people will die'.
We were allowed to see that Willow and Xander were broken by the loss, but there were bigger things going on; like stopping other people turning out like Jesse. Hence the minimum mourning time

I agree with this. 🙂
 
Oh, I just want to add that although I don't think it's too weird that Willow and Xander didn't mourn for Jesse (too early in the series for the viewers to really feel bad about a character we don't even know), I DO think it's weird that they never mention Jesse again. (I'm almost positive they don't, but I could be wrong.) If you didn't see those two episodes, you wouldn't even know Jesse had existed.
 
My feelings on Jesse demise were sadly not much of a big whoop. I would have likely missed him more if I knew him better.

For me, it wasn't so much of a cast killing, no one is safe sort of thing; Jesse was just bait that was a friend of Xanders, and a way to further flesh out Xanders character.

Most interesting to me was how Xander dealt with it all. That negativity and anger toward vampires was a trait that stuck with him long after the accidental staking. (I do sort of wish the writers would have worked alittle bit more of that angle in, but the shows called Buffy, not Dead Jesse 😉 )

One other thing I wish was explored more was how Buffy felt over Jesse being lost. Granted, she can't stop all deaths, but this one happened in part, due to her overconfidence with Luke and Darla and the feeling the I have that she was unprepaired for the hellmouth. (can't blame her, season one and all.) Unlike the pokemon, she could not catch them all in the graveyard. I would think that would weigh heavely on her. maybe it did and she, as a slayer, has a different way of grieving.

You know, untill I got involved in this discussion I did not realize that the scoobies never mention Jesse again. I guess thats kind of weird, but he does represent a loss and thats something difficult to talk about. There is an old wartime saying about never mentioning the dead in a fox hole; perhaps thats what Buffy and co. are doing. They are constantly putting their lives on the line and sometimes losing. Maybe Jesse is a writers oversight or maybe he's too hard to talk about. I dunno.

A very interesting side thread has started in this thread about vampire rehab. There has been some very interesting ideas thrown around. I'll add my two cents.

I remember Whistler telling Angel not all demons are bad. I wonder how this might play into a Buffy styled vampire? Vampires are born out of a predatory act and have to assume the role of predator to survive, but I wonder if all are inheirantly evil?

Angelus was certainly nasty, but I remember what the Judge mentioned to Spike and Dru in season two "You two reek of humanity" or something to that effect. Then there is the poor vampire with the glasses that loves knowledge, remeber what the judge does to him?

Latter on in that episode or close there to, Angelus shows up at vamp camp and Spike sicks the giant smurf on what he believes is Angel, the results get "There is no humanity left in this one, he can not be burned."

This leads me to believe that the demon side of the vampires themselves are not just straight lace bad guys, but very from individual to individual. (most probably bad.)

If Spikes bad side was to posses someone of higher self esteem and stronger character, perhaps he would not have become such a big Big Bad. It seemed to me like the vampire in him took alook around and said, 'Your a wuss'. and from that moment on it was full throttle over the top naughty in an attempt to wash away the weakness.

But the vampire side does posses the humans memories and i think over time that kind of acts as a subconcious to influence behavior....well at least untill it is totally forgotten, or in Angelus case, despised.

Long story short, I don't think it necessarily has to be a good person working away within a bad vampire, or at the very least having their memories/tendancies/traits surface. Just maybe...rehab might not be needed in all cases.

And just another side thought....I don't think a chip would have worked on Angelus.
 
^ Well, it's interesting that vampires are "evil", yet they can love. That's what the Judge sensed in Spike and Drusilla ("You two reek of humanity; you share affection and jealousy"), and as you said, the Judge actually burned a vampire which proves that vampire had at least a little humanity in him. Buffy doesn't believe anything can love without a soul (at least, in the beginning she does), but I think we all agree that Spike and Drusilla loved each other, and Spike loved Buffy. Can truly "evil" things love, care, adore and protect?

Then there's that argument Buffy and Riley have, where Buffy herself says there are different kinds of demons and some aren't evil. Look at Anya, for example. She becomes a vengeance demon again but takes back the killing of the frat boys. She was a 'demon', she was an 'evil thing', she shouldn't have cared...right?

Anya, Spike, the Whistler...all demons, but clearly not 100% evil. Then you get scum like Parker and Warren etc, you get rogue Slayers like Faith, Xander leaves Anya at the altar and Willow kills people...clearly having a soul isn't as cracked up as it's meant to be. 😉 I do think demons are multifaced and layered, moreso than the human cast in Buffy realizes at times.
 
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