Joss Explains Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[Kean]

A short vid in which Joss explains the essence of the show and that OMWF was the sequel to Hush, among other things.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rTmIhtoBac[/ame]

Now, a lesser Kean would gleefully point out that in explaining what the show is Joss included Buffy's relationship with Angel. And not any other relationships.

However, since I am so classy, I won't do that.

Nosiree...


:hehe:

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think thats why it started slipping; like he said there it was about high school.

Wasn't it funny that when he started talking about Angel there were edits and cuts? I think he talked about Riley and Spike but for sake of run time they cut it. Yup.

 

[Kean]

Wasn't it funny that when he started talking about Angel there were edits and cuts? I think he talked about Riley and Spike but for sake of run time they cut it. Yup.

I have no idea what you are talking about. :whistle:

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I have no idea what you are talking about. :whistle:

Clearly you don't. In fact, I am fairly certain you are rather clueless on the entire matter. How possibly could you have an idea about that which I speak when I myself do not.

 

[VisionGirl]

LOL you guys crack me up.

I think it's interesting what he said about the connection between Hush & OMWF. I'd also stick The Body in there too (no music), so again, it's about sound and communication.

 

[Hale Caesar]

You could tell that Joss never really understood Angel. David Greenwalt was the man who made Angel such a deep character, and made him so interesting that he could hold his very own show. I think that Joss was relieved to have Angel off of Buffy because he never made the connection to his character the way he did with someone like Xander, and after a while would have had no idea what he would have done with him. Good thing Greenwalt is a genius and helped make Angel one of the very few successful TV spin-offs.

 

[Kean]

Joss Explains Angel

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8UqUdz6vHo[/ame]

Another snipet from this interview. And S8 and the role Angel played has officially been explained: Joss doesn't get Angel and only when he tears him apart and see's Angel get back up again does he understand why he is a hero.

So, us Angel fans are doomed then. Yay! 🙁

 

[Taake]

Another snipet from this interview. And S8 and the role Angel played has officially been explained: Joss doesn't get Angel and only when he tears him apart and see's Angel get back up again does he understand why he is a hero.

So, us Angel fans are doomed then. Yay! 🙁

This was thoroughly disheartning to watch and further ensured me to keep a safe distance from the Angel comics in the future 🙁

 

[TeamSunnydale]

I never actually thought of Hush as the sequel to OMWF. But now that Joss mentions it, it does make sense. And I DID NOT appreciate how he only really talked about Buffy's relationship with angel. What about spike? I would say that Joss is a Bangel, but now that he said he doesn't understand Angel, maybe he's a spuffy? or maybe a killow seeing as they're the only couple joss kept together during the tv show!

 

[Marisa]

I never actually thought of Hush as the sequel to OMWF. But now that Joss mentions it, it does make sense. And I DID NOT appreciate how he only really talked about Buffy's relationship with angel. What about spike? I would say that Joss is a Bangel, but now that he said he doesn't understand Angel, maybe he's a spuffy? or maybe a killow seeing as they're the only couple joss kept together during the tv show!

I am beginning to think Joss doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

I never actually thought of Hush as the sequel to OMWF. But now that Joss mentions it, it does make sense. And I DID NOT appreciate how he only really talked about Buffy's relationship with angel. What about spike? I would say that Joss is a Bangel, but now that he said he doesn't understand Angel, maybe he's a spuffy? or maybe a killow seeing as they're the only couple joss kept together during the tv show!

I don't think Joss likes Spike as a character much at all. From what I heard he only kept Spike because fans loved him and Buffy needed another dark character as a boyfriend after the bad reaction for Riley. I think I read that James said Joss had no clue what to do with Spike which is why he'd show up in random parts of season 4 and 5 for 30 seconds and not appear again till the next eps.

http://www.tvscoop.tv/2007/08/james_marsters_1.html

I also think that Joss is a Bangel because of how well things went with Buffy and Angel, but mostly because Joss' fave eps has to do with Angel losing his soul.

 

[sosa lola]

Actually, Joss said that he thinks that Spike is better developed than Angel. I don't remember the actual quote but it sounded like he liked Spike more than Angel.

 

[Miss Kitty]

Yep, he talked about it in "The Write Environment: Featuring an Interview with Joss Whedon" :

Jeff: So when did you realize that Spike was more than just a villain?

Joss: Pretty much when James Marsters auditioned for it. Um, Spike was ya know, Spike was somebody that I loved conceptually and then ya know, James just brought and then kept on bringin'. So, it just, it was a pretty gradual process but it was always happening.

Jeff: A unique transition in that character from just a villain to almost the typical anti-hero. And yet never completely there.

Joss: Well, as a villain he was, ya know the Master that we started with was a straight up villain like, his belief system was just evil. And what was fun about Spike was, I said okay great and, and Mark, Mark Metcalf did a wonderful job, but now we need a villain who, that we can relate to in the way that we're relating to our other people, so that thematically they can become useful. So to introduce this guy who is clearly "oh I'm such a bad ass" and then have him very tenderly in love with another vampire, so from the very beginning the idea was well he's not just, ya know a cardboard. He's, he's, he's gonna have levels to play. Um, how many I didn't at the time realize, but ah, in a way he, he really didn't change that much. Ah, he's a character that I always liked a little bit more than Angel because --

Jeff: He's got more of an edge.

Joss: He was more evolved, though. He had more of an edge, but at the same time ya know he was, ya know he chose to have a soul.

And also in this interview : http://www.scifitv.com.au/Blog/2010/08/joss-whedon-says-serenity-was-firefly-season-2/

Joss also spoke about Spike, who he felt ultimately became the most fully developed character in the Whedonverse, coming from the lowest rung in Season Six (when he forced himself on Buffy) to someone who literally earned his own soul, as opposed to Angel, "who had a soul thrust upon him for a hundred years and moped about it."

And I know that I have my own bias, but I always felt that he loved Buffy & Spike because of the way he wrote them (and even talked about them in the Chosen commentary).

 

[Amyrat151]

Umm, I gotta say Kean, I don't think you're hearing what he actually said. For the record, it was after I Only Have Eyes For You that Joss began to come up with the idea for Angel as a TV show. And it's a good thing to since he probably would have had to kill Angel otherwise. What could he have done? Buffy and Angel, at that point anyway, couldn't be together. They'd eventually give into one another, and he'd be Angelus again. So...yeah. He understands Angel as a person who's constantly out for redemption, which was the core of the show. But beyond that, I think people like Tim Minear helped greatly in making it a noir show. A big <3 and kiss to Tim 🙂
As for who he likes more, Spike or Angel, it's probably a question that changes with time.

 

[Icarium]

I don't think Joss likes Spike as a character much at all. From what I heard he only kept Spike because fans loved him and Buffy needed another dark character as a boyfriend after the bad reaction for Riley

I really, really doubt that. He could have still had Spuffy without making the show all about Spike. And the episodes penned by Joss are very, very Spike-friendly:

- Family - he is the reluctant hero who saves Buffy from the temporarily invisible demons and helps Tara to realize the demon story is a lie.
- The Gift - Buffy appreciates his help, he is the one who is most adamantly on her side.
- OMWF - he stops Buffy from burning to death
- Chosen - the sun literally shines out of Spike's ass. 🙂

And which character ends up in AtS? That's right, Spike.

Another snipet from this interview. And S8 and the role Angel played has officially been explained: Joss doesn't get Angel and only when he tears him apart and see's Angel get back up again does he understand why he is a hero.

And that's different to how he treats most other characters how exactly? Let's face it, the guy has abused the "Character X goes dark and then has to redeem himself" trope so many times, that one starts to wonder if he can even write any other type of story arc these days...

 

[Kean]

Actually, Joss said that he thinks that Spike is better developed than Angel. I don't remember the actual quote but it sounded like he liked Spike more than Angel.

I've read that too. However, I would politely disagree with him on that. I actually think Faith is the most evolved character of all. She knows that her debt is never paid but has also not made the same mistakes that led her to her jail cell. I find her attitude and approach the one that exemplifies the greatest character growth, especially when comparing where she was and where she is now.

I would say that Joss is a Bangel, but now that he said he doesn't understand Angel, maybe he's a spuffy? or maybe a killow seeing as they're the only couple joss kept together during the tv show!

I don't actually think Joss ships any pairing. If he ships anything it is the story. If he was a real shipper we would have gotten a happy ending for SOMEONE by now. I think he goes where he believes the most compelling story is, not to where he wants to see certain people end up together.

This was thoroughly disheartning to watch and further ensured me to keep a safe distance from the Angel comics in the future 🙁

I'm used to Whedon saying such things about Angel. He's been saying it for years. I just wish we had some Greenwalt in the mix to have Angel's back.

Umm, I gotta say Kean, I don't think you're hearing what he actually said.

In which interview? If you mean the first one, then I was just poking fun with my comments. I wasn't being serious. Well, not completely. 😛

If you meant the second part, well, the man said point blank that he didn't know how to write Angel, that he didn't get him and that he only knew why Angel was a hero after he'd torn him apart to put back together again. So I can't really see where I misinterpreted him?

And that's different to how he treats most other characters how exactly? Let's face it, the guy has abused the "Character X goes dark and then has to redeem himself" trope so many times, that one starts to wonder if he can even write any other type of story arc these days...

I didn't think I had said or implied it was different to any other character. 🙂

But I do agree that that particular trope has been overused. In a way it makes me view Angel's part in S9 as redundant. What's the point of building him back up when he will probably been torn apart in S10? Eventually we will have to move past this tactic. While he claims the show was reinvented each season, it isn't exactly reinvention if you employ the same method each time for the same result.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Kean
the man said point blank that he didn't know how to write Angel, that he didn't get him and that he only knew why Angel was a hero after he'd torn him apart to put back together again. So I can't really see where I misinterpreted him?

I think that Joss meant that it's much harder to make good people interesting and compelling. And it's true. It's much easier to write bad guys. Remember Angelus? Every line is quotable.

But I agree - Joss likes his characters screwed-up. On TV he was limited by TV censorship and overall politics of The WB. They almost canceled AtS in seaason 1 because it was too dark.

Amyrat151
For the record, it was after I Only Have Eyes For You that Joss began to come up with the idea for Angel as a TV show. And it's a good thing to since he probably would have had to kill Angel otherwise. What could he have done? Buffy and Angel, at that point anyway, couldn't be together. They'd eventually give into one another, and he'd be Angelus again.

David Boreanaz and Charisma Carpenter had clauses in their "Angel" contracts that if AtS got canceled, they could return back to "Buffy". There was a lot of speculations how could Angel's story be developed. Maybe we'd get chipped Angelus and a twisted Bangelus lovehate is season 6. (And I think it would've been darker than Spuffy) 🙂

 

[Icarium]

I think that Joss meant that it's much harder to make good people interesting and compelling. And it's true.

Maybe for Joss but many a famous writer would disagree. And Joss himself was doing one heck of a job making the Scoobies interesting and fully fleshed characters without making any of them "go dark" (unless we count Angel)...until Greenwalt left. Coincidence? Probably but it's not as if Joss was never able to write the good guys superbly, he just seems to have one and only type of story arc for them these days. We should start calling him Joss "Redemption" Whedon. If anything, it rolls off the tongue more easily than Joss "I hate happy couples" Whedon".

 

[Tome]

They almost canceled AtS in seaason 1 because it was too dark.

Wait, what?! I never heard about that. How was the season ''too dark''?

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Icarium
Maybe for Joss but many a famous writer would disagree. And Joss himself was doing one heck of a job making the Scoobies interesting and fully fleshed characters without making any of them "go dark" (unless we count Angel)...until Greenwalt left. Coincidence? Probably but it's not as if Joss was never able to write the good guys superbly, he just seems to have one and only type of story arc for them these days. We should start calling him Joss "Redemption" Whedon. If anything, it rolls off the tongue more easily than Joss "I hate happy couples" Whedon".

Yes, Scoobies were interesting during school years - but, to me (I repeat - to me) they were never as compelling as Bangel in season 2 and Buffy and Faith's dynamics in season 3. To me, the most interesting aspect of Xander's story was his brief relationship with Faith - exactly because she tried to kill him. I'm still a Xander/Faith shipper - because you can tell fascinating stories about these two. To me, Willow's most interesting arc was in season 6 - because it was dark and epic.

I don't mind "Friends"-like stories, where the characters are interesting and fully fleshed without going dark - but this type of story doesn't affect me the way Joss' stories do. I don't internalize them. They don't stay with me, don't become part of me. I can watch and enjoy, but I forget about them as soon as I switch off me TV.

So it looks like we have different tastes in TV. The strength of Jossverse is its ability to attract people with different tastes. Those who love friendship stories, enjoy friendship stories. Those who love dark stories, enjoy dark stories. And, of course, we'll always disagree - because we regard the show from opposite POVs.

Tome
Wait, what?! I never heard about that. How was the season ''too dark''?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(TV_series)

Early during the life of the series, some effort was made to slightly soften the original concept. For example, scenes were cut from the pilot episode, "City of," in which Angel tasted the blood of a murder victim;[11] the episode that was originally written to be the second episode, "Corrupt", was abandoned altogether. Writer David Fury explained, "The network was shocked. They said 'We can't shoot this. This is way too dark.' We were able to break a new idea, we had to turn it over in three days."[12] Instead, the tone was lightened and the opening episodes established Angel Investigations as an idealistic, shoestring operation.