Joss Explains Buffy the Vampire Slayer

The strength of Jossverse is its ability to attract people with different tastes. Those who love friendship stories, enjoy friendship stories. Those who love dark stories, enjoy dark stories.

Yes but the problem is that for some time there has been pretty much nothing but dark stories. Personally I find it very disingenuous to write a story in which people constantly stab each other in the back (with the repercussions of that tending to be quickly swept under the carpet) and then pretend they are still great friends. Trying to have it both ways is rarely a good idea. I am sure that many of the fans who loved the Scooby friendships dropped the show at some point when it became clear that Joss had no interest whatsoever in such things any more, enthralled in his "darkly mature" stories and in pandering to shippers. For me having characters with the depth of a stamp like Anya and Andrew go back and forth between dark and "good" isn't exactly a compelling story. Neither is that of Faith, the poster child for a cliché bad girl.

Rehashing the same situations doesn't really help either - oh, look Buffy/Angel/Wesley/Willow/Xander/Cordelia slept with a demon (or a human villain). Been there, done that. Also, I think it takes a lot more talent to write a story with lots of conflict and drama without always turning things into "one of the good guys becomes evil". Look at Wesley's arc in S3 of AtS - there is plenty of conflict without turning Wes into a moustache-twirling villain similar to Dull Willow. Or The yoko Factor, Dead Man's Party, When She Was Bad, etc - a lot of angst without anybody being perfectly right or anybody being monstrously bad. Joss seems to have been trying to repeat the success of the Angel storyline of BtVS S2 ever since he wrote it, but with ever more diminishing returns. The suspense has totally disappeared because every fan by now knows that the "evil" characters will not face much punishment and will be "redeemed". And the get out of jail cards Joss is so prone to giving are also at odds with his claims of being a writer of mature dark stories. People like David Simon ("The Wire") write such stories, Joss these days writes wish-fulfilment trash where if you are one of the important characters you can literally get away with anything, up to and including trying to destroy the world. Sorry if this sounds too harsh, but that's my opinion on the matter.
 
Icarium - I enjoyed Wesley's arc enormously. Wes is one of my favorite characters. And, at the same time, I enjoed Willow's story in season 6 - to me, she has never been a "moustache-twirling villain", she was a complex, suffering human being.

I strongly disagree with your opinion on Joss Whedon - but it seems like we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8UqUdz6vHo

Another snipet from this interview. And S8 and the role Angel played has officially been explained: Joss doesn't get Angel and only when he tears him apart and see's Angel get back up again does he understand why he is a hero.

So, us Angel fans are doomed then. Yay! 🙁

Hmm. I'm re-watching this short video, and I have to say it makes sense in the context of Angel the TV show. I can see where he felt he "needed" to do that- in some ways it was unfortunate, but in others it made a richly complex character. But I think it all breaks down in season 8. And I don't know if that's so much Joss not getting Angel as Joss pairing with Scott Allie who also doesn't get Angel. At least on TV he had David Greenwalt, who clearly did get Angel. I know we've debated ad nauseum as to whether Angel is OOC in season 8. I think part of his actions are rooted in his character, but it's taken to the extreme. Also, his big-picture-ness/easily manipulated-ness is balanced out in the show with his decisions regarding free will. That's always a struggle for the character in the show & he doesn't always make the right/best decisions in that regard, but we see no internal struggle in season 8 other than the initial one (as seen in the Riley one-shot). And I've said it before and I'll reiterate it that the other paradox we see with his character in his aloneness/isolation vs his desperate need for his friends. His friends are completely absent in season 8, thus Twangel. Buffy on her own probably would be OK: yes her friends are incredibly important to her & make her into a different type of Slayer, but she has a strong inner moral compass. Angel does not. He is clearly finding his way, and absolutely needs the support, guidance, and resolve of those around him. It makes me angry that Joss didn't get that, at least that, from the show & carry that over into the comics. Even Spike admits to knowing about Twilight's identity, yet we don't hear him saying he confronted Angel even once. Joss should've had Greenwalt or another Angel writer consulting with Allie. The guy admits to not having seen much of the TV series. Anyway, I sure hope some of this is rectified in season 9.

I'm sorry to have gone so OT, I'm sure this discussion belongs more in the season 8/9 forum, but I had all these thoughts after watching the video & needed to get it all out LOL!
 
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