Joss' Favorite Buffy Episode - Innocence?

Joan the Vampire Slayer

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So, I was watching one of the Season 7 Featurettes, and Joss says that "Innocence" is his all-time favorite episode ever and what he thinks was the best. This surprised me. Sure, it's a great episode, but it's not my favorite.

Thoughts? Agree or Disagree?
 
Whilst I do love the episode and think it is one of the best, I don't know if I would say it is the best overall, but I think it marks the point where Buffy was really becoming much more than just a teen fantasy series, Innocence is when Buffy started to become one of the best dramas on television. Also, I think it's when Joss started the whole "pain equals drama" or at least realised how well it worked. I love it, it is a teriffic hour of television, but when it comes to my favourite, I have to go for one of the more high concept offerings like Hush or Once More, With Feeling.
 
It's definitely one of my favourite episodes. It's the pinnacle of season two, and the whole series for me.

I can see why Joss sees it as his favourite. Everything got rocking and rolling from this point and all of the characters were developing. I think it's an example of Joss' best writing.

Plus, I think he totally loves the rocket launcher 😉
 
I mean, how can you not love a rocket launcher? 🙂

I agree with this. I have always felt that Innocence was a phenomenal episode. It's one of the episodes that I always return to when I want to just watch an episode.

While there are other episodes that are my favorites (Checkpoint, Passion, Becoming, Band Candy) Innocence is a great turning point in the Buffy series.
 
I mean, how can you not love a rocket launcher? 🙂

I agree with this. I have always felt that Innocence was a phenomenal episode. It's one of the episodes that I always return to when I want to just watch an episode.

While there are other episodes that are my favorites (Checkpoint, Passion, Becoming, Band Candy) Innocence is a great turning point in the Buffy series.

Totally agree. As I've said before, it marks the point when the series turned from being a fun teen fantasy series into a truly great slice of television and I also think it was when most critics and reviewers started to take notice of the series. It is definitely a watershed episode in many ways.
 
It's a great episode... I don't think anyone can argue with that. It's not what I'd call *the* best, but I can see why Joss thinks so. It must have been such a trip to write! And like people have been saying, it was a major turning point for the show. I was also watching the Chosen Collection extras and Joss was talking about the writing of Innocence. He was in a cafe or something and writing the scene when Angel comes back and is being a jerk to Buffy, but she didn't know he'd lost his soul. He said we was looking down at his pen and couldn't believe something so mean was coming out of it!
 
I agree that the episode is definitely one of the series best, thematically and in terms of the writing. No doubt about that, just not one of my personal favorites.

It's so interesting to me how much it varies among fans in regards to what they consider their favorite episodes. I guess we all relate to different things and for different reasons. For instance, my two favorite Buffy episodes are "Pangs" and "Tabula Rasa." People always tell me they think these episodes lack substance, but I completely disagree.

---------- Post added at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

It's a great episode... I don't think anyone can argue with that. It's not what I'd call *the* best, but I can see why Joss thinks so. It must have been such a trip to write! And like people have been saying, it was a major turning point for the show. I was also watching the Chosen Collection extras and Joss was talking about the writing of Innocence. He was in a cafe or something and writing the scene when Angel comes back and is being a jerk to Buffy, but she didn't know he'd lost his soul. He said we was looking down at his pen and couldn't believe something so mean was coming out of it!

I know, that scene is so hard to watch! Poor Buffy. I always cringe.
 
"Innocence" is a great episode. It's not my all-time favorite but I can totally see why it would be Joss's. A writer has a very different view of their pieces than the audience, and if I had written a bunch of Buffy episodes, "Innocence" would probably be my favorite too for the reasons already mentioned.
 
The moment when she asks Angel/Angelus "was I not good?" is a real heartbreaker and the way he treats her subsquently is very difficult to watch, but it makes for a tremendously acted piece of drama.

i totally agree, it's so sad that scene, although it is genius for a piece of real drama!
Yeah i think it's a great episode, probably one of my favorites that i have never noticed before.
 
I get why he would say that. Since he said the show used the vampires and beasties as metaphors, they couldn't really get any better than this. It was a perfect story.
 
well i am kinda new with Btvs and Angel the series...but i have managed to watch seasons 1,2,3,4 of angel... and i have completed seasons 1 and 2 of Buffy...i am currently watching season 3(but don't worry i have read a lot of spoilers when i discovered the series in wikipedia) but i can tell they are amazing series with very complicated characters...sorry for the intro...i can't say if Innocence is my favourite cause i haven't watched all 7 seasons but i can say it was an amazing,sad and exciting episode...and i also agree :Buffy with the rocket launcher...WOW!!!girl power!!!
 
I have to say that I agree. It is a very powerful episode. I don't have favourite Buffy episode, but I think I like Becoming Part 2 the most, but Innocence is on the second place.
 
It actually is my favorite, if it's even possible for me to have only one favorite! Although I don't think it's the best of the series, I think it's one of the best. Angelus is at his greatest, even if you dislike the Buffy/Angel relationship you have to feel awful for poor Buffy, the acting is amazing, and: rocket launcher! The characters are the most important thing to me in fiction and this episode is so emotional and full of powerful character stuff without being overdramatic.

Also, the scene with Buffy and Giles in the car has to be one of my favorite moments for the whole series.
 
It is, as many people have said before, a major turning point in the whole series' story. It's where we really learn that anyone - even the oh-so-lovely Angel - can become a horrible monster, and it's like someone's turned the lights down a little, and everything's a little darker and scarier and angstier than it was before.

What makes it even worse is that Angelus knows Buffy just as well as Angel did. He knows all her weaknesses, and how to exploit them to cause the most amount of pain and heartbreak possible, which is sort of what he feeds off. This is shown especially in the scene in the bedroom where she doesn't know about the loss of his soul yet, where he mocks her and hurts her as much as he can, and also in the scene at the end, where they have their first massive fight and he says 'you can't kill me'. It must have been truly amazing to write, and to watch being filmed and performed, and I can see why Joss likes it so much. It's where his series grows up.
 
BibliophileAnn
BibliophileAnn
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It is, as many people have said before, a major turning point in the whole series' story. It's where we really learn that anyone - even the oh-so-lovely Angel - can become a horrible monster, and it's like someone's turned the lights down a little, and everything's a little darker and scarier and angstier than it was before.

Exactly. I wouldn't say Innocence itself is the very best episode of the series (it's one of them, though), but it marked a major shift in the series and launched what I'd consider its best story arc. I also have a particular soft spot for it myself because it's the first full episode of Buffy I ever saw, and I knew from that one episode that I was completely hooked on this show.
 
While Innocence is not my favorite episode with Angel becoming the villian of the piece it is intriguing watching the cat and mouse game Angelus plays with Buffy, which she stinks at and so he gets what he wants everytime. Buffy using a Rocket Launcher to take out The Judge is cool. Angelus didn't see that one coming did he. hehe.
 
To me "Innocence" is another great episode in what is a fantastic season. The scene where Angel hurts Buffy back at his apartment is wonderfully played out. Great acting from both DB and SMG.

Then Buffy dealing with losing her love and not being able to kill Angelius is fascinating to watch. Dramatic, heart breaking episode, something the show presents so well throughout all of the seasons.

Judging by what i've heard Joss is a massive fan of Bangel and likes the drama of their love, so in that respect it is not a surprise he sees this episode as his favourite. The thing with season 2 especially is that all of the episodes are of such high quality. Personally i prefer both of the "What's my line" episodes and "becoming" episodes. There are probably other episodes in that season i prefer aswell.
 
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