Joss is such a cruel person tbh

Joss isn't afraid to kill off main characters. Some see this as cruel and some see it as necessary. Jenny's death brought Buffy and Giles closer together. It was also a wake up call for Buffy. She realized that Angel had become a monster and if she didn't put an end to it more innocent people would die. It was heart breaking to see Giles' reaction to Jenny's lifeless body on the bed. It was also hard to watch Buffy and Willows reaction when they got the phone call. It's scene's like those that test the fans. It tells us something about ourselves that maybe we didn't see before..and that is how attached and connected we feel to these characters.
 
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Skytteflickan88
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You're right. I thought I remembered her wanting to spend time with her son, and that's why she didnt return season 5.

Actually, she wanted to do a lighter season, as in guest star, so fewer episodes so that she could spend time with her baby. Whedon disagreed and since he was already pissed off about her pregnancy in season 4, he chose not to have her come back at all (except for the one episode).
 
Cohen
Cohen
so i'm not crazy? ;)
nightshade
nightshade
I rememeber her wanting to do it like ASH did in Buffy, coming and going when needed
I think he's so very accustomed to having people worship him that he does things just to piss people off. Like the whole Tara thing. How he always wanted someone in the main credits for one episode, then kill them. That's so cruel. I was so excited to see Amber's name FINALLY in the credits, after all the time she'd spent being a main character, I thought it was due. Then, she died. I hated Joss for that! There's no other reason to do something like that than to be cruel to your fanbase.

I've always thought of him as a very arrogant, selfish, childish person who gets angry if things don't go his way. I was honestly shocked at how he treated Charisma, one of his longest working actors, because she got pregnant and didn't tell him. How insensitive! She'd had a miscarriage. I can completely understand wanting to wait to tell people to make sure you won't lose this one too. But pulling the rug from underneath her feet? Especially when she needed it the most, with a baby on the way?! That cemented his D-bag status to me.

Plus, just listen to him on ANY commentary. He takes credit for everything. Sarah's acting, the camera angles, lighting. The director doesn't do everything, and I know that. My brother's a director. They have a lot of control, but there are so many other people helping you get to where you want to be, and I feel like he just kinda slaps them all in the face. He's very full of himself.

That being said, I still love his work and think he puts a lot of effort into it. But he should be proud of what he's done, not complain about not being a #1 hit show.
 
Old Master 3.0
Old Master 3.0
Well done. Myself, I see it as justice when he gets brought back down to earth by not having his other projects do so well.
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Skytteflickan88
You seem to be assuming lots of things about a person you don't know.
nightshade
nightshade
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I love him for it. Reminds me of my childhood stories. I wrote one about a girl who threatened her family with a razor blade, was shot down by the cops, then her younger sister drowned in the pool when her foot was caught in the drain. Her mother has another child, born on St. Patrick's day. Oh, he must be a lucky child (she, in fact, names him lucky)!

He dies of leukemia.
 
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sisterofmercy
Cheery! :p
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Skytteflickan88
I love that I'm not the only one who creates horrible stories.
I don't know if this is going to turn into a long post, but we'll see.

I don't hate him. In fact if he didn't do these cruel things I might not enjoy his work quite as much as I do. It's what sets the shows apart from the rest, and I see that as a good thing. He's raised my expectations. Now when I watch a show and they hint that a character could die I almost expect them too and am very disappointed when they aren't. Like, Gossip Girl for example. I know it's a really bad example but hear me out. Twice they have hinted that Chuck is in danger of death. Once they had him shot and everyone was all 'omg, is chuck dead? omg, he can't die!' THen in the next season there he was, pretty much all good. The cliffhanger was a failure after that. Then in midseason for season five they've made it that he could probably be dead. He's not going to die and if he does I will be extremely shocked. And it bothers me, I would have great respect for them if they killed him. But guess what, they won't because the fanbase would eat them alive. That's my problem with many showrunners these days. Or maybe I just like death.

As much as I loved her, if they bring Gemma back on Ringer I'm going to be very disappointed. I hate that kind of thing.

Continuing I don't really see Joss as arrogant or childish. Sure, he has his moments but he also has great moments where I find him entertaining and all of that jazz. To be honest, I understand everyone's views on the whole Charisma thing and it bothers me too but not all that much. I understand what she did and why, but to an extent I understand what he did. And it was probably a good thing in the long run, she had children to spend time with and I'm sure she wanted that too. Also, I see Cordelia's character as being a little shot to hell even before the crappy season four storyline.

As for the fact that he killed Jenny to show that he would get rid of actors and characters too, that is a good thing. I get that it could be a little cruel but it's not as bad as you could make out. Actors have this comfort on most shows where if their character is loved and good and everything's wonderful that they'll get to stay and forever have work there. But the thing is, especially in a show like Buffy, you can't guarentee everyone's safety. It's unrealistic in a setting of that kind. The characters are constantly putting themselves in danger, they can't get away easily every time. If that were real life, there would be loss. And it makes for a much more entertaining and gripping and emotional journey. On a Joss show you can't assume a character safe but that's just good writing and something the actors needed to understand. It wasn't (except in I suppose Charisma's case) personal.

I'm done ranting, but only because I'm tired and can't figure out what else to say. And if I had something else to say I wouldn't say it right.
 
I love him for it. Reminds me of my childhood stories. I wrote one about a girl who threatened her family with a razor blade, was shot down by the cops, then her younger sister drowned in the pool when her foot was caught in the drain. Her mother has another child, born on St. Patrick's day. Oh, he must be a lucky child (she, in fact, names him lucky)!

He dies of leukemia.
As Buffy would say: I fear you.

---------- Post added at 01:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 AM ----------

I don't know if this is going to turn into a long post, but we'll see.

I don't hate him. In fact if he didn't do these cruel things I might not enjoy his work quite as much as I do. It's what sets the shows apart from the rest, and I see that as a good thing. He's raised my expectations. Now when I watch a show and they hint that a character could die I almost expect them too and am very disappointed when they aren't.
This is total bullcrap. Joss NEVER killed ANY main character on BUFFY. He played favorites. Xander, Giles, Willow, and Buffy have never been in any danger and I never once thought they were, although I hoped. Chuck is a MAIN CHARACTER on GG, so by Joss standards, he'll never die.

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------

And concerning the Charisma thing, she WANTED to do more episodes. Hell, the episode she DID do wasn't even originally hers! It was SMG's! Buffy was originally meant to be in the 100 episode (vomit), but Sarah didn't want to or something like that. So basically, the ONLY REASON Cordelia had ANY conclusion was because Joss couldn't use his golden child! He was basically gonna leave Cordelia and Charisma out in the cold, just because he's a whiny, pathetic little child who didn't get what he wanted!
 
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sisterofmercy
Sheesh say what you really think
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Skytteflickan88
That seems a bit presumptuous, both to assume you're right about him playing favorites(I mean, he did put (the main 3 through Hell), and calling someone else's opinion bullcrap.
Isn't that what we do with celebrities though?

Yes. I just think it's bad to call someone names when you don't know if they're actually trying to be cruel, or just to write a good story. I mean, what you consider cruel, I consider daring. Maybe he was going for daring.
 
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Willow My Love
It's a difference of opinion. You say daring, I say cruel. That's how it goes.
Yes. I just think it's bad to call someone names when you don't know if they're actually trying to be cruel, or just to write a good story. I mean, what you consider cruel, I consider daring. Maybe he was going for daring.
I'm not just pulling my assumptions out of thin air. They're based on his actions and the commentary I've listened to. No, I don't know him personally, but based on what I do know, I've formed an opinion, which I've shared.

Whether he was going for daring or not, it came across as just cruel to me. How is what he did with Cordy, for instance, "daring" anyhow?
 
I'm not just pulling my assumptions out of thin air. They're based on his actions and the commentary I've listened to. No, I don't know him personally, but based on what I do know, I've formed an opinion, which I've shared.

I can admit that I don't know exactly what you base your opinion on (I haven't seen/heard/read many interviews, commentaries, videos with him), but what I reacted strongly to in your original post is that you assume he does things to piss people off, instead of creating poignant stories.

If you take the deaths/addictions away from the show, I think it wouldn't even be half as good as it is today. So for me; no pain, no gain. I assume it's the same for Joss.

It could be that he's sadistic, but I'm not ready to jump to that conclusion. Even if he was full of himself, I don't think he's more cruel than anyone else who tries to make the most out of a story.

Take Tara's death for example: Forst off, it was needed to bring Willow to a new place. He sacrificed one character so another one could grow. I might not like it, but that's because I would have prefered to see more of Tara than Willow at that point.

Second off; her time on the show, and with Willow, seemed the more lovely and bittersweet since he made sure we were so happy for Tara, before he took her away.

If it's not your cup of tea, it's not your cup of tea. But some off us might like storytwists like that, not because we like when people suffer, but we like to see the story move forward.

In the end, it's anyone's guess why Joss does what he does. I would just rather assume the best in people than the worst, when I don't have enough information(and yes, I understand that you're saying that you feel that you have enough info, which is of course up to you).

Whether he was going for daring or not, it came across as just cruel to me. How is what he did with Cordy, for instance, "daring" anyhow?

Exactly what do you mean? That he killed her, made her possessed, sleep with Connor, something else? I think her entire season 4 arc was daring. Not that entertaining, but not more cruel than the arcs I did find entertaining. Like killing Fred. I have never loved and admired her more than when she struggled for her life.

I feel like Cordelia's arc was a hit and a miss though. She had become boring, just there for Angel to have a shoulder to cry on, so something new was needed.

I don't know why Joss didn't write something that could make Cordelia return. I would guess that was because of the addition of Spike(I think the network might have demanded that), which kind of filled up the screen time. There might not have been any place for her. Maybe he couldn't come up with anything more for that character.

I was honestly shocked at how he treated Charisma, one of his longest working actors, because she got pregnant and didn't tell him. How insensitive! She'd had a miscarriage. I can completely understand wanting to wait to tell people to make sure you won't lose this one too. But pulling the rug from underneath her feet? Especially when she needed it the most, with a baby on the way?! That cemented his D-bag status to me.

Btw, why do you think he fired Charisma because he was mad about the baby and not because the story needed it? Or that she would need the money right then(I assume she had money in the bank because she was on a successful show, and maybe the father was there for her)? Do you have sources or is it a theory?
 
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Sweet J
Food for thought, I didn't know he fired Charisma?
Btw, why do you think he fired Charisma because he was mad about the baby and not because the story needed it? Or that she would need the money right then(I assume she had money in the bank because she was on a successful show, and maybe the father was there for her)? Do you have sources or is it a theory?

Because Charisma herself has said so over twitter. That's how I know. It's not a theory that any extra funds you can get when having a child helps. Whether she's got money in the bank or not, losing your job when you're pregnant is devastating, not to mention stressful. Not that CC would have been on the streets, but it's still very hard.

Look, I think you're getting WAY too offended over my point of view. It's mine to have, and I think he's kind of a jackass. That's not going to change. You're going to have to agree to disagree with me here. I think what I think, you think what you think. I'm done defending my right to have an opinion.
 
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Cast No Shadow
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Skytteflickan88
I'm sorry if you read my posts as being offensive. I won't bother you anymore.
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Sweet J
If what you say is true about her Tweets, I think you may have swayed me to your side.
Just a note here, something to think about. Being an actor isn't like other jobs - things like this affect the job and livelihood of a lot of other people. So although I'm sure Charisma had her reasons for not sharing the news, Joss does have a reason as well for not appreciating it. That probably resulted in a lot of extra time away from their families for the rest of the cast, the crew, and the people behind the scenes.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
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While I agree.. I think typically its the pain and struggles they go through that makes the show so great. Looking back near the earlier seasons I think Joss was a little soft on the pain. I know Season One everyone is pretty cheerful; except Buffy dealing with being a Slayer I suppose. Yeah- its like the snowball effect it seems, each season gets darker and darker =)
 
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Cast No Shadow
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[MENTION=8557]Skytteflickan88[/MENTION] agrees: I'm sorry if you read my posts as being offensive. I won't bother you anymore.
I didn't mean to be rude, and I truly apologize if I came across that way.. I just don't see the point of me arguing that I think he's arrogant and you arguing that you think I'm being unfair. Truce?
 
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I didn't mean to be rude, and I truly apologize if I came across that way.. I just don't see the point of me arguing that I think he's arrogant and you arguing that you think I'm being unfair. Truce?

Oh, I didn't feel like you were trying to be rude, just like you were hurt, so I didn't take anything personally. I guess I did go on a bit even though the conversation was dead. So yes, truce.

You made me awefully curious about those tweets though(I love gossip) but I gave up trying to find them on Charisma's twitter. I hate that one can't search for specific tweets.
 
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Willow My Love
Oh those were from almost 6 months ago, I think. It was a LONG time ago, and only a few tweets. I'm sure you can google information about it.
Because Charisma herself has said so over twitter. That's how I know. It's not a theory that any extra funds you can get when having a child helps. Whether she's got money in the bank or not, losing your job when you're pregnant is devastating, not to mention stressful. Not that CC would have been on the streets, but it's still very hard.

Look, I think you're getting WAY too offended over my point of view. It's mine to have, and I think he's kind of a jackass. That's not going to change. You're going to have to agree to disagree with me here. I think what I think, you think what you think. I'm done defending my right to have an opinion.

You remind me of my mom. She gets so damn touchy when I disagree with her opinions, then she refuses to discuss it any further. It really sucks. It's like, "Hey...I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong or stupid, I just want to understand your point of view here. Maybe I could learn something!" I feel like that's what Skytteflickan was getting at. They seemed genuinely interested in why you find him to be a douche and/or ass, whatever.

I'm not trying to be rude, just my opinion on the ...discussion that I so wasn't a part of haha.....I'm done now.
 
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Skytteflickan88
That is what I was getting at, but I also see why should would think I was pushy.
You remind me of my mom. She gets so damn touchy when I disagree with her opinions, then she refuses to discuss it any further. It really sucks. It's like, "Hey...I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong or stupid, I just want to understand your point of view here. Maybe I could learn something!" I feel like that's what Skytteflickan was getting at. They seemed genuinely interested in why you find him to be a douche and/or ass, whatever.

I'm not trying to be rude, just my opinion on the ...discussion that I so wasn't a part of haha.....I'm done now.
We'd talked about why I thought what I did a few times. That's why I got somewhat annoyed. I wasn't getting touchy simply because she disagreed. Besides which, we've already called a truce, so I don't really see why you posted this other than to stir it up again.
 
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Cast No Shadow
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