Joss Killed Dollhouse

[Buffyverse Fan]

Has anyone else considered the fact that had Joss produced Dollhouse for cable, not only would the show itself have been better (FOX made him pace it more slowly), but it would still be airing?

Dollhouse's competition, Stargate Universe has the same time slot, only on cable,and it's the other "genre" show that runs on Fridays.

SGU averages about half the audience that even the worst Dollhouse episodes pulled in, yet it's still going strong.

So, think Joss should've gone to cable?

 

[Fake Shemp]

Yes, I think he should make a show with HBO, Showtime or even SyFy, they give things a chance.

 

[white avenger]

I think that Joss should have gone ANYWHERE in order to keep his shows, each and every one of them, on the air in some fashion. Cable, satellite, Canada, Europe...the moon, if it would have meant keeping the shows going, if only for one more year. Most of us, I believe, are of the like opinion that more Joss is preferable to less Joss, with the single reservation that the quality of the finished product didn't suffer.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think that Joss should have gone ANYWHERE in order to keep his shows, each and every one of them, on the air in some fashion. Cable, satellite, Canada, Europe...the moon, if it would have meant keeping the shows going, if only for one more year. Most of us, I believe, are of the like opinion that more Joss is preferable to less Joss, with the single reservation that the quality of the finished product didn't suffer.

Like what has happened with season 8. I like to think that the two Warren continuity errors and the boredom of the Predators and Prey arc (I think he might have left other writers write those filler one shots since he didn't have time to write himself) would have been avoided if he hadn't been working on that many projects. Not that Predators and Prey wasn't good, but we shouldn't have several filler-like one shots in a row. And come on, simply re-watching season 7 would have made the Warren misstakes non-existant (the later misstake was probably written by Jane Espenson, but I assume Joss read the script).

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Well since Eliza approached Joss and thats what started Sollhouse, so I don't think there would be a option there.

But I think his future projects should be Cable, although im guessing he and his show get a better budget on Network, so would he do cable??

 

[Buffy Summers]

The standards for numbers of viewers is different for network vs cable, so that's not really a valid comparison. Stargate is an established brand with a big following...

It's not like you really get to pick and choose that much where your show lands.

 

[DoughnutHole]

Actually, the thought had crossed my mind once I heard Dollhouse was cancelled.

I think he would have had more breathing room, and Dollhouse probably would not have died so horribly.

But what do I know... probably nothing. Apart from the fact that the only shows I watch are the ones on HBO and Showtime (the the ocassional exception... like It's Always Sunny :tongue3🙂 )I think, for the most part, that's where the quality is.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

The standards for numbers of viewers is different for network vs cable, so that's not really a valid comparison.

My point was, an inferior show got inferior numbers, and is considered a success. If Joss had taken Dollhouse to cable and received even 30% less audience than he did on his failed FOX run, he would've easily gotten multiple renewals.

Stargate is an established brand with a big following...

Well that's what surprised me, it's not. The first half of Stargate Universe's big season finale, with cameos from 3/4 of the original cast (Jack, Sam, and Daniel all appeared), struggled to find one million viewers. Dollhouse numbers blew SGU out of the water.

It's not like you really get to pick and choose that much where your show lands.

I don't know. USA has a stronger lineup than NBC at the moment...

 

[Buffy Summers]

Well that's what surprised me, it's not. The first half of Stargate Universe's big season finale, with cameos from 3/4 of the original cast (Jack, Sam, and Daniel all appeared), struggled to find one million viewers. Dollhouse numbers blew SGU out of the water.

I'm not talking about numbers. I'm talking about a fanbase.


What does lineups have to do with it? Your arguments only holds water if Joss turned down an offer from a cable network. Which I am not aware he did. You go where you get the best offer, and that was with FOX this time for Joss. It's not his fault.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I'm not talking about numbers. I'm talking about a fanbase.

I'm not quite sure what you mean?

 

[XandersEye]

The show was only made because Eliza Dushku had a two show contract with Fox. It couldn't have been taken anywhere else because of that. I'm just glad they got to finish the story.

 

[BuffyElevated]

It's not like you really get to pick and choose that much where your show lands.

Right... When a show is pitched to the networks, it's all about who will give the best deal (timeslot/money/promotion). Sometimes he might not have had much of a choice of which network aired his shows.
But yeah, I think Joss's work would be better off on a network like Showtime or HBO.

 

[SlayerOfVampyrs]

While I agree that this show, and any Joss show, would do much better on cable, Darla speaks truth. It's unfortunate, but you don't really get a choice. I hope in the future he avoids FOX like the plague, though.
Also: The man should have his own network. Nothing on television holds a candle to what Joss writes. Oh, Joss with his own network of Jossy goodness...What a dream that would be...

 

[Justme]

Like what has happened with season 8. I like to think that the two Warren continuity errors and the boredom of the Predators and Prey arc (I think he might have left other writers write those filler one shots since he didn't have time to write himself) would have been avoided if he hadn't been working on that many projects. Not that Predators and Prey wasn't good, but we shouldn't have several filler-like one shots in a row. And come on, simply re-watching season 7 would have made the Warren misstakes non-existant (the later misstake was probably written by Jane Espenson, but I assume Joss read the script).

I don't read the comics but I am curious, what are the errors?

 

[Washburne]

I don't read the comics but I am curious, what are the errors?

One of them.

Spoiler

The first appeared as Warren in season 7 which mean that he had to be dead. In the comics he's alive again. Skinless but alive. You could come up to reasons why this is but Joss has admitted this to be a mistake.

 

[Summerlilly]

So basically Joss is too good for network television! ha ha Oh well, whats done is done....tragically.:lame: At least we got what we got!!:: tu ::

 

[redheadboi19]

I think that Joss should have gone ANYWHERE in order to keep his shows, each and every one of them, on the air in some fashion. Cable, satellite, Canada, Europe...the moon, if it would have meant keeping the shows going, if only for one more year. Most of us, I believe, are of the like opinion that more Joss is preferable to less Joss, with the single reservation that the quality of the finished product didn't suffer.

I compleatly and absoutly agree with you on this. Joss has such vision and creativity. His only problem is his choise on where to put it. He needs to be on cable. I would more say HBO. His mind is to big for anything else. But he dosent seam to ever let it go there. With HBO he would not have the restriction or limitations he does with anywhere else.
I think one of the wisest things he has ever done is to do Serinity as a movie. He should have done a few more movies. Which I dont see why he dosent do more work. (Be it movies or T.V. shows). I dont think we have seen anything from him recently (Besides the comics). I mean he has plenty of people who are willing to work with him. Elisia has done three shows for him. I dont think I have ever heard anyone say that they would never work with him again. From everything that I have ever heard or read it seams that everyone who works with him really enjoys it. SOOOO......He needs to do more work. I am seriously haveing Joss withdraws

 

[VisionGirl]

I think one of the wisest things he has ever done is to do Serinity as a movie. He should have done a few more movies. Which I dont see why he dosent do more work. (Be it movies or T.V. shows). I dont think we have seen anything from him recently (Besides the comics). I mean he has plenty of people who are willing to work with him. Elisia has done three shows for him. I dont think I have ever heard anyone say that they would never work with him again. From everything that I have ever heard or read it seams that everyone who works with him really enjoys it. SOOOO......He needs to do more work. I am seriously haveing Joss withdraws

Well, he's extremely busy doing Avengers right now, plus doing various comics for Dark Horse. I really don't want him doing a TV show right now, not until he's done with Avengers and can devote his entire energy to it. I mean, Joss was doing Firefly at the same time as BTVS season 7 & ATS season 5, and a lot of people think those Buffy & Angel seasons suffered because of it.

I do agree that his shows would do soooo much better on cable. I'm not so sure about HBO/Showtime though. I think there are certain expectations on either of those, and I can't think of a genre show on those channels. Plus, aren't those usually bigger budget shows? But USA, F/X, SyFy and others have been turning out some good shows.

I think the problem is that BTVS & subsequently ATS had a built-in following in the most desirable demographic group. I don't think that Joss did those shows for teenagers/YAs, but because Buffy is about teenagers/YAs, it automatically attracts that group, which I think automatically leads to higher ratings, & the WB/UPN were good fits for that as well. Firefly & Dollhouse are definitely not geared toward that demographic. And from what I hear, FOX did a piss-poor job of promoting them. WB/UPN did a pretty good job in comparison. Science Channel is doing a good promotion of its rerun of Firefly right now.

But to say that "Joss killed Dollhouse". No, I agree with others, I don't think he had a lot of choice in the matter.