Joss Quits Twitter

[Skanky Vamp]

That's what I suspected. General help drafted in to boost the quality of the product. Which is different from bringing in specialists because it's impossible for a writer to create a decent character which differs in any way from them - be that gender, race, height, hair colour etc.

I didnt say that. I gave that as an example of how Whedon started, as a script doctor. They bring in consultants for everything that needs consulting. Generally a producer or director will listen to the actor or actress and use them as a 'consultant' drawing on their own experience. But at times that is not an option. Also there is the fear of blacklisting if, as an actor or actress, you disagree with the direction you are given so sometimes you are not really in a position to speak.

Granted, I am speaking logically and not in the absurdities in which you mention; bringing in a consultant for hair color, height, etc

 

[The Bronze]

Granted, I am speaking logically and not in the absurdities in which you mention; bringing in a consultant for hair color, height, etc

I think the notion that every work of fiction needs to be moderated by the question "would you as a woman do that" is no less absurd than asking "would you as a blonde do that". I believe in people and also characters as individuals. I don't think being male makes me an authority on how half the worlds population would act in any given situation and completely oblivious to how the other half would act.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think the notion that every work of fiction needs to be moderated by the question "would you as a woman do that"

I never said it did.

I don't think being male makes me an authority on how half the worlds population would act in any given situation

And being a male doesnt give you the authority to blankety dismiss opinions of others when they find issue with the way you wrote a character. Nor does it grant you permission to mock and ridicule them on Twitter. It doesn't give you the right to get upset when they voice their displeasure at those actions, either.

 

[The Bronze]

I never said it did.

That is what was suggested by @RomanticSoul previously. That's where my question originated. I maybe wrongly assumed you shared the same point of view since you seemed to be picking up the counter argument.

And being a male doesnt give you the authority to blankety dismiss opinions of others when they find issue with the way you wrote a character. Nor does it grant you permission to mock and ridicule them on Twitter. It doesn't give you the right to get upset when they voice their displeasure at those actions, either.

You have all of those rights regardless of gender. You can take on others issues and criticism if you wish or dismiss them, it's your choice. You can mock and ridicule someone if you wish, you don't have to. Everyone also has the right to be upset as well.

You just don't have the right to abuse people, harass people and issue death threats.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

That is what was suggested by @RomanticSoul previously. That's where my question originated. I maybe wrongly assumed you shared the same point of view since you seemed to be picking up the counter argument.

I wasnt making an argument. You said would hire writers for black..disabled.. thats what I was saying they do it all the time, in the form of consultants. (writers are more for serialized media)

You have all of those rights regardless of gender. You can take on others issues and criticism if you wish or dismiss them, it's your choice. You can mock and ridicule someone if you wish, you don't have to. Everyone also has the right to be upset as well.

then thats the fundamental difference. Because I think it's poor character and reflects poorly on him for doing so. Especially when you consider how he build his name and reputation.

 

[Mr Trick]

@Mr Trick maybe a little different situation, it's playing on my mind at the moment. Every 5 years you get told to vote for one party so the other doesn't get in and not to waste your vote by voting for what you believe in. Certainly feels like being ignored.

Yeah but there are other parties to vote for its just that not enough people choose to vote for them. I'm not a big fan of treating people as if their passive if they allow themselves to be seduced into voting for just either Labour or Torries and are not happy with the results then they only have themselves to blame. Anyway, back to the subject in hand!😀

 

[The Bronze]

I can't believe 11 million people would vote for the continued abuse of the poor and disabled if they were aware of what was happening. Same story for Tories carving up schools and their assets and giving them away to their donors. The list goes on and on. Trouble is of course the vast majority of the press is very right wing. To the point of The Telegraph emailing subscribers and telling them to vote Tory.

 

[Mr Trick]

I can't believe 11 million people would vote for the continued abuse of the poor and disabled if they were aware of what was happening. Same story for Tories carving up schools and their assets and giving them away to their donors. The list goes on and on. Trouble is of course the vast majority of the press is very right wing. To the point of The Telegraph emailing subscribers and telling them to vote Tory.

But people don't have to listen to the press do they? Thats what I'm saying. And how hard is it to read up on the policies of the likes of The Green Party, or the Lib Dems, or The SNP or the Socialists etc..? The system isn't ideal but its a lot fairer than in many countries and people do have other choices they just don't use them because they have a negative attitude about voting for smaller parties who they know are unlikely to get into power.

 

[Silverspike]

"But people don't have to listen to the press do they?"

Oh but they do and this government has been very clever with their propaganda. Drip feeding the population anti welfare/anti disabled 'porn' for the last 5 years and sadly there must be an awful lot of stupid people out there because bugger me the swallowed it hook line and sinker and voted the swines in yet again.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

What do you mean "drip feeding the population anti welfare/anti disabled 'porn' " examples would be helpful.

 

[Silverspike]

Oh god that would take ages. There's tones out there, from the medias obsession with benefit fraud, welfare, etc, etc.

Here's something to start you off though....

http://www.newstatesman.com/economi...ow-media-coverage-affects-our-view-benefit-cl

Many disabled charities have reported a growing instances of disabled hate crimes which shot up since the coalition came in and which they believe comes from the propaganda spewed out in the media.

 

[Mr Trick]

Oh god that would take ages. There's tones out there, from the medias obsession with benefit fraud, welfare, etc, etc.

Here's something to start you off though....

http://www.newstatesman.com/economi...ow-media-coverage-affects-our-view-benefit-cl

Many disabled charities have reported a growing instances of disabled hate crimes which shot up since the coalition came in and which they believe comes from the propaganda spewed out in the media.

It doesn't matter though, people are still not passive. Just because you choose to read a newspaper that doesn't mean you should choose to believe everything it tells you. Anyone with any kind of media knowledge knows that part of the point is that you are being fed an angle or a prospective. Its then up to you whether you believe or if you allow yourself to be taken in by it. I'm an example. I wasn't convinced by the Colition Government, so didn't vote either Tory or Lib Dem. I considered voting Labour but in the end just wasn't quite convinced enough. In the end I voted Green because I felt their ideas for how the country should be run was much more in line with my own and I thought rather than taking an gamble they were quite a safe bet and worth putting my vote behind. There you go I made a considered decision and didn't just vote the predictable way. Point proven🙂

 

[Silverspike]

I'm afraid you're in the minority sadly.

 

[The Bronze]

@Mr. Pole have a look at this article for a great overview of the problem. Green links are external sources providing evidence, blue links are articles from the same site explaining related points.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/scrounger-narrative-definition.html?m=1

 

[Mr Trick]

I'm afraid you're in the minority sadly.

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm saying that people choose too easily to be in the minority rather than it being the fault of the media or the powers that be etc.

 

[The Bronze]

@Mr Trick great choice. Unfortunately the world isn't full of people like you. Plenty of people will read and repeat. If the press is mostly controlled by rich right wing interests then expect right wing propaganda to be accepted as fact by the masses.

 

[Silverspike]

They can only choose properly If they're in full possession of the facts and imo they weren't.

The Tories are masters of spin.

I would have voted Green too, but I wanted the Tories out so went for labour as I knew the greens had a snowball in hells chance. Sadly it turned out neither did labour.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Somehow I don't think Joss left twitter because of politics.

He had accomplished what he wanted to do. Personally, I'm waiting for the merger of Youtube, Twitter and Facebook. The combined entity is to be known as YouTwitFace and it will be the antisocial network everyone has been waiting for.

 

[nightshade]

Can we try and keep this thread on topic please

 

[thetopher]

@thetopher I will reiterate that no one is defending people saying stuff like "you should get cancer and die", that's a horrible thing to say to anybody at any time and I'll go out on a limb and say that it is never ever a justified thing to say.

But, as I stated earlier, the fact that some people (men/women/trolls) said these things, does not to me justify people like Adam Baldwin shouting that it's all "feminists" fault, as if they're the only ones in the wrong here, as if they "scared" Joss off Twitter. There were plenty of people saying horrible things to Joss, not all of them feminists, so why is one group getting to wear the black hat? That is just taking the spot-light off the real issue here - i.e. what people (people, not women) thought was wrong with the Black Widow storyline - and putting all the emphasis on Joss Whedon and his Twitter-departure and playing a sad little violin for him because again, poor filmmaker, he's written so many strong females before, why doesn't that just blanket cover all his future endeavours?

I think there's a middle ground here. Blaming all feminists is, of course, nonsense. Some people disliked the film/scenes in the film for entirely differeent reasons and some feminists didn't mind the way the story went.
By the same token Joss is not Micheal Bay, he isn't somebody who uses female characters as mere adornments for his men//violence/s'plosions movies. Joss had some cred here which is why it's nonsense to say he's this or that. How about 'I think he wrote a bad script' and give examples.

And yes, I know that some people did that but for me most of the problem is with the medium- Twitter- a place that isn't build for subtlety, analysis, or any complex thought really. I've noticed that 'serious' Twitter 'conversations' quickly revert into polarising bullshit along the way- both sides are at fault here.

Why? Because there are decades and droves of male driven movies/male action heroes/superheroes whatever you name it. And just because women have started to get more air-time, more storylines, more diversity, more of everything... does not mean that we're just going to bow our heads gratefully and say thank you for whatever scraps are thrown our way. It's not as if I'm going "oh well, we got Buffy and Ripley so... what do we have to complain about? We have it all!"

I think movies are in a state of transition and people need to realise that and adjust their attitudes. Black Widow may be one of the few female superheroes out there (not that this is Joss' fault exactly) but its not like there havn't been plenty of big budget, blockbuster action movies (Hunger Games for one) that showcase women as the main star.
Once upon a time I maybe would've even understood the levels of frustration directed at Joss for mis-characterisation or whatever but there are still plenty of strong, ass-kicking women out there in the movie-sphere. BW is not out by her lonesome and so people need to bear that in mind- times have changed. Can it be better? Yes absolutely, which is where things like analysis and reasoned debate come in.


OT- I had a good chuckle at all the 'vast right-wing media conspiricy/brain-washed masses' stuff, in an election where 1) We have the BBC as lots of people's main source of news. 2) The leaders had plenty of open and clear debates directly with the public to get their POV across and 3) where all the MEDIA DRIVEN polls, that all said pretty much the same thing about how this election turned out, were utterly and totally wrong. I don't see how they could've influenced anything if they were all so far off with their predictions.

In reality Labour lost because the SNP in Scotland and Ukip in England took a lot of their votes away. It also lost because Ed Miliband was an idiot during a lot of this campaign- he made a few key mistakes that cost him his job. And now that stupid stone tablet thing is a gravestone for his political career.

It's a shame but there it is- people had a choice, they were informed about that choice and they made it. Just because we don't agree with it doesn't mean that they were some how mind-conrtolled by The Sun to go and vote 'badly'.

Look, idiots like Ed Balls and George Galloway are out of a job. So, silver lining eh?