Joss Whedon on Firefly Kickstarter

[Black Eye Guy]

Practically from the first moment that Rob Thomas and Kristen Bell announced their Kickstarter campaign for a Veronica Mars movie — and certainly after the project amassed over $2.5 million in 24 hours — people began wondering if the same could be done for another gone-before-its-time TV series.

Joss Whedon was one of them.

"Yes, obviously, the next thing will be that we will try to Kickstart a Dollhouse reunion," Whedon tells BuzzFeed.
He's joking, folks. Whedon — a professed Veronica Mars super-fan — says he knew almost instantly that now that fan-based funding had been proven viable at a feature film scale, the constant drumbeat of "when will there be another Firefly movie?" would only be getting louder. Whedon is something of a pioneer in the realm of reviving canceled series into a feature film: Three years after Fox unceremoniously axed Firefly in 2002, Whedon convinced Universal Pictures to bankroll a feature film version that served as his feature directing debut. Alas, Serenity grossed a meager $38.9 million worldwide, scuttling any lasting hope that a major studio would step up to do it again. But if Fox or Universal signed off on distributing a fan-funded Firefly film...? Just the idea of it is enough to get Browncoats everywhere itching at their wallets.

Initially, however, Whedon declined to talk about what the implications of Veronica Mars' success would mean for Firefly. But then, he says, "I realized if I don't, it's the only thing I'm ever going to be asked ever by anyone."
So here's what he had to say:

Adam B. Vary: So what was your reaction when you heard this was happening with Veronica Mars and it was so successful?
Joss Whedon: It was unfettered joy. A) I thought it was an awesome and ballsy move. B) I love V. Mars and want more of it. And C) It feels like a real game-changer. Like, not since Louis C.K. [selling his comedy special directly online].
ABV: There has been some bellyaching about the idea of going to fans to ask them to donate money to a project that they won't be true investors in.
JW: Mmmhmm.
ABV: Any thoughts on that?
JW: You know, I get that. I understand that it feels not as pure, and that the presence of a studio makes it disingenuous somehow. But people clearly understood what was happening and just wanted to see more of the thing they love. To give them that opportunity doesn't feel wrong. If it was a truly wrong move, I don't think it would have worked. I feel like people would have said, "Hey, that's not fair! That doesn't count!" It costs a lot to see a movie anyway. And it's usually not one you like. That kind of passion, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I might not be thinking it through. I'm not exactly business Joe.
ABV: So, what does this mean for Firefly?
JW: That's what everybody wants to know about. Uh, yeah. My fourth feeling when I read about [the Veronica Mars Kickstarter campaign] was a kind of dread. Because I realized the only thing that would be on everybody's mind right now. I've said repeatedly that I would love to make another movie with these guys, and that remains the case. It also remains the case that I'm booked up by Marvel for the next three years, and that I haven't even been able to get Dr. Horrible 2 off the ground because of that. So I don't even entertain the notion of entertaining the notion of doing this, and won't. Couple years from now, when Nathan [Fillion]'s no longer [on] Castle and I'm no longer the Tom Hagen of the Marvel Universe and making a giant movie, we might look and see where the market is then. But right now, it's a complete non-Kickstarter for me.
ABV: I think you would need at least 10 times the budget of what the Veronica Mars folks are asking for for their movie to make a Firefly movie make sense.
JW: Yes. We come to Veronica Mars to hear her talk and hear her father talk. But Firefly/Serenity, it's kind of a different animal — and then there's also the question of what kind of animal it is. Because some people are talking about Firefly episodes. Some people are talking about [a new] Serenity. I think anything we could get off the ground would be appreciated by the fans. But what form it would take is I think under some debate.
For me, [Kickstarter] doesn't just open the floodgates. God knows, things are cheaper now than when we made even Serenity. Good effects can be done in a different manner. Nor is that universe all about spectacle either. But it is a tad more expensive — and a little all-consuming! And of course, there's the other fear: What if it's not that good? I can do something that's not that good — that's fine. But if I do that and it's not that good, I'm going to feel really stupid.
Because I'm too busy to deal with it, I did have a moment of just, "Oh my god! I'm in trouble now." I've always said, "Yes, I'd love to do another one," and it's still true. But I sort of got slapped in the face with it. Or probably will.
ABV: Well at least you have a good excuse to kick the can down the road a bit, since you're, how did you put it, the Tom Hagen of Marvel Universe? That's a great metaphor.
JW: (Laughs) That's how I see it. At some point, [Marvel Studios chief] Kevin Feige is going to turn to me and say, "You're out, Joss."

Source

Is it wrong I want him to be fired from Marvel now...?
I'm just watching something now, so I'll comment on it better in a bit!

 

[white avenger]

Well, of the original cast, Fillion is probably the busiest one at the moment, and he has publicly said hat he wanted to do another movie. If the money were there, I don't see why there couldn't be a new movie, even if it were direct to DVD, I think that there enough fans who would buy it that it would be profitable. As to whether or not Joss would be able to add even one more iron to his fire, that remains problematical, and I really don't see Marvel letting their new golden boy get away anytime this decade.

Bottom line is, hope all you want to, but don't go holding your breath just yet.

 

[FaithsFollower]

Maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but here goes:

Wasn't the whole point of the VM campaign to raise money to make a movie of the cancelled tv show?

What's the point of a kickstarter campaign for Firefly when there's already been a movie of it? 😕

 

[brinkster130]

Not all that surprising as he already has a lot on his plate; I can't imagine him actually being able to put significant time into another project.

It would be interesting to see how much he could raise via Kickstarter; I wonder if something like this will still be a feasible option in a few years when his schedule opens up some or if the time will have passed. (Which I think will be the case 🙁 )

 

[Mischlings]

Honestly, I don't think I want more of Firefly. It should go the Battlestar Galactica route, with some form of reboot in 7-10 years -- every year that passes makes me think it's less and less of a good idea.

I honestly think that his joke at the start would be a better idea, though I know it wouldn't get nearly the positive reception that Firefly would.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Well, of the original cast, Fillion is probably the busiest one at the moment, and he has publicly said hat he wanted to do another movie. If the money were there, I don't see why there couldn't be a new movie, even if it were direct to DVD, I think that there enough fans who would buy it that it would be profitable. As to whether or not Joss would be able to add even one more iron to his fire, that remains problematical, and I really don't see Marvel letting their new golden boy get away anytime this decade.

Bottom line is, hope all you want to, but don't go holding your breath just yet.

Its interesting cuz this idea is everywhere now for every show thats been canceled, which people are deluding themselves on a bit. This method wont work for every canceled show.
It worked for Veronica Mars because the cast want it, it was confirmed today that whatever they get on Kickstarter is their fund. They're not getting further production costs from Warner Brothers, but WB will market and publish it. With a minimum goal of 2 million I think it's safe to presume that the actors that appeared in the promo video would be doing it for free/next to nothing. 2 million is for sets/location/crew/further cast/props/lighting/editing and whatever else goes into making a movie.

For this type of project to work you'd need a show that has a cast like Firefly, if you watch any behind the scenes stuff or Q&A panels with them, you can immediately tell there is a comradely there that isn't present in other shows. It's way Firefly is the main Whedon project everyone jumped to rather than Buffy, Angel or Dollhouse. I'd also assume thats why he mentions Dollhouse first, because everyone is expecting Firefly and he was making a joke.

The Firefly cast call each other when their doing panels, or they randomly turn up at panels the others are at (where even the actors are surprised), they are the type of cast this would work for, because of their love of the project. More importantly the first person on the call sheet has to be like that, Fillion still goes to Panels when he doesn't need to, not a lot of main actors from a show do that for the same amount of time and after being successful on another show. The cast have to be able to get together and work around their schedules, not have managers negotiating deals when their free and for a lot of projects I don't think some actors would do that.


I agree that it wont be for a while, but I'm not sure it will matter that Marvel wont want to let him go, we saw with Much Ado that his idea of winding down from stressing over Avengers was to make a project of his own in 12 days.
I don't think he'd stay with them too long, he said he was hesitant about taking Avengers 2. He seems like the kind of guy that likes to create content not work with someone else's.
Not to mention he's right, the question is never gonna end now. It will stop being "is there a possibility you are gonna try Firefly again?", and start being "When you doing Firefly again"

Maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but here goes:

Wasn't the whole point of the VM campaign to raise money to make a movie of the cancelled tv show?

What's the point of a kickstarter campaign for Firefly when there's already been a movie of it? 😕

Yeah but even that wasn't enough, and it's not being selfish, it's just there is more stories to tell from Firefly.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I would really, really love another Firefly movie. "Serenity" is amazing, and I would love to see one more movie, and then let the franchise rest. I think with Firefly, like BtVS, if there was ever a reboot I would feel sick to my stomach, 'cause it wouldn't be the real thing for me, ever.

 

[Mischlings]

I've been all in favor of seeing a rebooting of the likes of BtVS, but I don't think a reboot wouldn't work for Firefly. It's THAT cast that makes people attatched to the world so mcuh.

Well, there are two reasons for the reboot route:

1) Where are you going after Serenity, especially after killing off Wash and Book? You lose a lot without them, or you can tell stories with them, which limits you to the time between the series being cancelled and Serenity.

2) It's been 11 years, the actors look noticeably older -- how are you going to accommodate that fact?

I love Firefly and wish that there was more of it, but I just don't know how they'd go about doing that. The animated series route is interesting and something that I would definitely be interested in, just no idea if they could actually get that to happen. Then again, this does open the door...

I don't know, I'm starting to vote for just leaving it be.

 

[FaithsFollower]

Yeah but even that wasn't enough, and it's not being selfish, it's just there is more stories to tell from Firefly.

Ah. Gotcha. 😀

But is it possible to have another movie without a certain character?

Its interesting cuz this idea is everywhere now for every show thats been canceled, which people are deluding themselves on a bit. This method wont work for every canceled show.

On TVline.com they think that Pushing Daisies would make a great movie...but not Buffy.


Boo to Pushing Daisies! 😛

 

[Robb Stark]

I don't wan to be a buzzkill here, but I don't think there's anyway this type of financing plan would work for Firefly, and there's a host of other factors blocking it as well.

For starters, as the article said, Veronica Mars costs roughly two million dollars to make. Firefly, a movie taking place in space, is going to cost many, many times that. There are no special effects in VM. Special effects were a huge part of "Serenity". I mean hell, the final chase scene in Mal's ship probably cost more than two million its own.

Secondly, again as the article notes, Joss Whedon isn't really available. The Avengers franchise is going to occupy the bulk of his time for the foreseeable future.

And to be honest, while I love the Veronica Mars story and think it's just incredible, I'm not among the fans who is dying for more Firely. It's been mentioned, but we've already had more Firefly. I'd much prefer a Buffy or Angel movie, and if you'd asked me two days ago which I'd rather see, I'd have chosen Veronica Mars over Firefly.

 

[white avenger]

2) It's been 11 years, the actors look noticeably older -- how are you going to accommodate that fact?

Is there some sort of rule that says that the second movie has to pick up just where the first one ended? It could take place 10, 15, or more years after the Miranda incident, with a little background, like, maybe when everyone learned what the government had tried to do, it sparked a resurgence of the rebellion, and that has been going on, with Mal and his crew playing a major part, ever since.

Roddenberry didn't try and pass off Kirk, McCoy, Sock, and the others as still being the same age as they were when "Star Trek" was cancelled, and that worked out okay. Joss could do exactly the same thing, and even bring in a few younger crew members if he thought that he needed them.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Well, there are two reasons for the reboot route:

1) Where are you going after Serenity, especially after killing off Wash and Book? You lose a lot without them, or you can tell stories with them, which limits you to the time between the series being cancelled and Serenity.

2) It's been 11 years, the actors look noticeably older -- how are you going to accommodate that fact?

I love Firefly and wish that there was more of it, but I just don't know how they'd go about doing that. The animated series route is interesting and something that I would definitely be interested in, just no idea if they could actually get that to happen. Then again, this does open the door...

I don't know, I'm starting to vote for just leaving it be.

True you do lose a lot with them gone (I'd say Wash more than Book), but they also leave room for new cast, one of the guys in Much Ado is absolutely hilarious and would definitely work as a similar character type. I didn't think fans would want a carbon copy of Firefly, it would have to have moved on a bit anyway.

The age thing I don't think is a factor, the characters don't seem like the type to leave Serenity, so I'd say they'd still be there.

I completely agree that a animated series would be brilliant, that had better be the least we get!!

Ah. Gotcha. 😀

But is it possible to have another movie without a certain character?


On TVline.com they think that Pushing Daisies would make a great movie...but not Buffy.


Boo to Pushing Daisies! 😛

Depends on the character, in the case of Firelfy, you'd need the whole crew I'd say.

To be honest, I agree with TVLine. I don't think a continuation of BtVS would work, it ran for so long and it'd be very hard to put together I'd say.

 

[white avenger]

As for new characters, i think that it would be a good twist if the Nameless Operative were to wind up being a crew member.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I don't wan to be a buzzkill here, but I don't think there's anyway this type of financing plan would work for Firefly, and there's a host of other factors blocking it as well.

For starters, as the article said, Veronica Mars costs roughly two million dollars to make. Firefly, a movie taking place in space, is going to cost many, many times that. There are no special effects in VM. Special effects were a huge part of "Serenity". I mean hell, the final chase scene in Mal's ship probably cost more than two million its own.

Secondly, again as the article notes, Joss Whedon isn't really available. The Avengers franchise is going to occupy the bulk of his time for the foreseeable future.

And to be honest, while I love the Veronica Mars story and think it's just incredible, I'm not among the fans who is dying for more Firely. It's been mentioned, but we've already had more Firefly. I'd much prefer a Buffy or Angel movie, and if you'd asked me two days ago which I'd rather see, I'd have chosen Veronica Mars over Firefly.

I don't think Veronica Mars would have done this well if it wasn't the first one to try this out. I think many fans that liked VM jumped on board to pay because of the idea of it. I liked VM, I own the DVDs but I haven't watched in years and don't discuss the show online, the most active thing I'd done with VM was like it on Facebook, but I jumped at the opportunity to help pay for the movie, just because of what was actually being done with it. They tried to do a comic book for VM that never got off the ground.

You compare those with Firefly and its a whole different ball game, they got a movie, comics, very active fan base, 3rd highest grossing director of a film ever, multiple conventions every year, Firefly would obliterate whatever VM ends up raising.

One of the reasons I wouldn't be as interested in BtVS or Angel is they got to tell there story, they had a long run. Plus the cast don't seem to share the same love of the project as the cast of Firefly do - and thats the most important factor in it.

Serenity (119 mins) was estimated to cost 40 million, while the 80 min pilot cost 12million. And effects were more expensive back them, not to mention the "labor of love" factor for reducing the actors wages (like with Veronica Mars or Much Ado).
I'm not saying it will happen, but there is a very real possibility that it would work.
I couldn't speculate what funding they'd get, but I'd be willing to bet it would be double, at a minimum, of whatever VM's ends up being (it's at 3.2mil at the min)

 

[Mischlings]

Is there some sort of rule that says that the second movie has to pick up just where the first one ended? It could take place 10, 15, or more years after the Miranda incident, with a little background, like, maybe when everyone learned what the government had tried to do, it sparked a resurgence of the rebellion, and that has been going on, with Mal and his crew playing a major part, ever since.

There is no rule about that, the thing is, it's not a situation that I can see being easy to gloss over -- you can pull off a time skip like that in some movie series (say, Dark Knight to Dark Knight Rises) because nothing major happened in all that time -- that cannot be said and done with Serenity.

True you do lose a lot with them gone (I'd say Wash more than Book), but they also leave room for new cast, one of the guys in Much Ado is absolutely hilarious and would definitely work as a similar character type. I didn't think fans would want a carbon copy of Firefly, it would have to have moved on a bit anyway.

The age thing I don't think is a factor, the characters don't seem like the type to leave Serenity, so I'd say they'd still be there.

I completely agree that a animated series would be brilliant, that had better be the least we get!!

I don't think the characters would leave either, it's just a factor that would force the plot to be set a fair bit into the future -- which runs into the problem I brought up earlier about time skips.

The reason I'd like an animated series is that the actors can just do voice work, completely taking out the aging as a factor. Of course, what exactly is the market for that, and who would be the willing party to take the risk of making and distributing it?

 

[Black Eye Guy]

There is no rule about that, the thing is, it's not a situation that I can see being easy to gloss over -- you can pull off a time skip like that in some movie series (say, Dark Knight to Dark Knight Rises) because nothing major happened in all that time -- that cannot be said and done with Serenity.

I could imagine a scenario where the Allience took 10 years to regroup, they would have taken a major smack down with the events of Serenity. It'd make sense for them to slink back and decide on their next venture, it's something that could be worked around.

I don't think the characters would leave either, it's just a factor that would force the plot to be set a fair bit into the future -- which runs into the problem I brought up earlier about time skips.

The reason I'd like an animated series is that the actors can just do voice work, completely taking out the aging as a factor. Of course, what exactly is the market for that, and who would be the willing party to take the risk of making and distributing it?

An animated series by kickstarter is a no brainer to me. The only reason Serenity was profitable was because of DVD sales, distribution should be one thing they know they'll get back/make a profit on. Having fans fun the production costs would take away all fear of that.
Similar to what they're doing with Veronica Mars. To be honest I'm worried about the outcome of Veronica Mars, if they go about putting it in cinemas and DVD's they could end up spending more money than they make, a lot of the fans are now getting the film though digital download or DVD having helped to fund, so thats gonna cut into their profit if people don't wanna pay again to see it in the cinema when they know there getting a file or DVD a few days after release.
They should be looking at a deal with someone like Netflixs for worldwide distribution, or just directly with with VOD that you purchase as a one off.
Like I said before I think the success of this, for Veronica Mars, will be because of the novelty of it, I don't think they'll have a massive commercial success from this.

Because this is the first time being done, it's gonna act as the blue print for how other projects go about it, and if it fails to make money it may scare studios off.

It's a great idea for studios who have the rights for shows they'll never use. Like remember a while ago Fillion made a joke about buying the rights to Firefly, and fans started a campaign and had pledges totaling 1million before they were told it wouldn't work. Like Fox never would have given up the rights, if the fans had gotten the money together, that would have shown them that the interest was there, so they would have wanted to make more than they could by keeping the rights, but then they don't do anything with them because they don't think they'll make all their costs back.
If they go in knowing not to expect a commercial success, but focus on making a profit and expanding merchandising and licensing they can start to churn money from it.

To me thats why Firefly is perfect, they know they'll make money and the merchandise and licensing would be huge, but they can't be guaranteed a good enough profit to merit all the trouble that would have gone into Serenity. Let the fans fund the project and everyone wins, we get more original content and the studio makes its profit.

Of course it could be the total opposite and the buzz generated about it will make people want to watch it, but I'd have a hard time believing that.

 

[white avenger]

There is no rule about that, the thing is, it's not a situation that I can see being easy to gloss over -- you can pull off a time skip like that in some movie series (say, Dark Knight to Dark Knight Rises) because nothing major happened in all that time -- that cannot be said and done with Serenity.



The reason I'd like an animated series is that the actors can just do voice work, completely taking out the aging as a factor. Of course, what exactly is the market for that, and who would be the willing party to take the risk of making and distributing it?

As long as the time skip was explained in a logical way, it would work just as well for the time between "Serenity" and whatever its sequel happened to be as it did for the time between the last "Star Trek" episode and "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" whose time gap, beyond Kirk's promotion to Admiral and "Enterprise's" relegation from one of the most advanced vessels in Star Fleet to an Academy training craft, was left entirely blank. In fact, the whole thing could be explained by a single brief conversation between two characters at the beginning of the second movie, something like:

Mal: River, you've been on "Serenity" for 15 years, now, and you still can't keep the synthetic food processor running properly.

River: That's because I'm the PILOT, Mal, not the engineer. I fly this rust bucket. KAYLEE keeps it running, when she isn't banging my brother. I swear, that incense Inara burns in her shuttle craft is rotting your brain cells.

Then the conversation is interrupted by the food processor exploding and everyone scrambling to scrape synthetic protein off of the bulkhead,

As for an animated series, either "Buffy," Angel," or "Firefly," as long as the art and animation were good and the story lines were kept on at least a semi-adult level, That would be fine by me.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Pushing Daisies? Why would anyone want to see a movie made of a crap tv show?

Unfortunately, because the cast of Firefly IS awesome and I definitely would like to see more of them together, probably what a new Firefly project would have to do is go back and tell what happened before - like what happened to Book before he became a preacher. Because they were all cagey about that on the show.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Pushing Daisies? Why would anyone want to see a movie made of a crap tv show?

Bite your tongue!!
I loved Pushing Daisies it was such a good show! So over the top and beautifully stylized!

 

[Faith]

Give it up, Pushing Daisies was rubbish!

I too would like to see some sort of prequel/follow-up. I would probably go with follow up due to the cast looking much older and I want my old cast back.

As BEG said so well before me, the cast still have the passion and that is one of the most important things, you can want something all you want but if they are not passionate about it then it won't work. That is why it was so awesome because you could see how much they loved it.

That is the same with Veronica Mars, you can see how the cast were still in love with the show, much like ourselves. Both Veronica Mars and Firefly are the two shows that can still send me into a rant when talking of cancellation.

I do believe that if Joss thinks that there is a way that he can do it, and do it well then he will do it. We will just have to wait. In the meantime, we have SHIELD, Much Ado and a Dr Horrible sequel to look forward to 🙂