Joss Whedon & public forgiveness - necessary?

[NoShip]

If you look at Whedon, there are multiple accusations made by multiple women that are very similar and go back a long time. The accusations did not start in 2017, the public just started paying attention.

Whedon was alot more than just a dick or a mean boss. He was quite famous for hitting on his female employees. He took no for an answer, but, the women that declined his advances had a funny habit of losing their jobs about a year later.

So ... Whedon has a lot to appologize for. This is not some fake abuse or mob cancellation of a once beloved celebrity.
There are lots and lots of indicators and a good bit of evidence showing how much Whedon does have to appologize for.

 

[NoShip]

The girl was 13 and her mother brought her to his house. She was a stage mom, and basically served up her daughter to Polanski. What's not widely known is, Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson were also involved with the girl. But they were heavy hitters in Hollywood, so it got covered up. Roman was foreign and not as "protected" so he became the fall guy.

And in regards to this topic, Joss has absolutely nothing to apologize for.

If Polanski drugged and raped the girl, it does not matter who else was involved. He should be punished. Beatty and Nicholson being "heavy hitters" who got special treatment does not excuse Polanski.

Beatty and Nicholson should have been punished as well.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Back to the case of Joss Whedon, I would bet a lot of moviegoers don't know anything about accusations levelled against Joss. If he apologized, he would have to explain all the douchebaggery he was apologizing for. It might do good for his soul, but not for his career. We sometimes forget that we on the Buffy Boards are quite prepared to put Joss under the microscope but I would bet he is only recognized for comic book movies and Buffy and for the majority of people, he is only recognized as a Hollywood writer and director and aren't they all a bunch of scumbags anyway? An apology can't help him and would probably hurt him. His best move would be to let it blow over. There is a great tendency to want to clear your name if anything is said against you and you have to steel yourself to just do nothing, but in his case, he should do exactly that - nothing.

Accusations from an ex-wife would be down in the noise level because most ex-wives accuse the husband of something, so that would be expected. He could use the fact that SMG recruited her friend Michelle Trachtenberg to the series, something she wouldn't do if the set was toxic, and Alexis and Alison agreed to be Godparents for Joss' children. Besides, a lot of actors have never had business or industrial experience and a lot of us have seen toxic workplaces and understand that you can't get everything you want and this sort of thing happens all the time.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

Multiple rape accusers in multiple countries in multiple decades, including a conviction for child molestation and you're in here saying, "Well, not ALL of them were proven!" Polanski said years after he fled the country that the only reason people were mad at him was because they wanted to have sex with young girls too because "everybody wants to" and essentially they were just jealous of him. He doesn't believe what he did was wrong.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Your reading comprehension skills are quite impressive!

 

[famicommander]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Your reading comprehension skills are quite impressive!

Again, the fact that you feel the need to go to bat for a convicted child molester says it all. What, exactly, is to be gained on your part by correcting the record on the behalf of someone who was convicted of child rape and then got laughed out of court (twice, and then banned from refiling) for trying to sue someone who published the accounts of five additional rape accusers?

Nobody who has already been convinced of raping a child gets the benefit of the doubt when additional people (including several that were children at the time) accuse them of rape. Especially when, even after the conviction, they publicly proclaimed how everyone was jealous of them for sleeping with underage girls and that everyone would do it if they could.

Double digit rape accusations from multiple people on multiple continents in multiple decades is not an accident or a coincidence.

 

[Plasma]

Again, reminder that this thread is about Joss Whedon and his actions. Discussing other individuals with no relation to Whedon is somewhat derailing the point of the thread, and doing so with such vitriol is kind of off-putting.

Back to the case of Joss Whedon, I would bet a lot of moviegoers don't know anything about accusations levelled against Joss. If he apologized, he would have to explain all the douchebaggery he was apologizing for. It might do good for his soul, but not for his career.

This is exactly the case, and it’s a mentality issue that you see in a lot of places. People on Internet forums have somewhat of an issue realizing how small they are in the grand scheme of things. If Whedon was to apologize, it would’ve come during a media tide. All that’s left is ripples in the general discussion, and like you said, I think a lot of people don’t know or remember any of it.

Another issue is that I think there is an amount of people, don’t know if large or small, who just don’t really care. There’s been this growing mentality with online culture of “it’s not affecting me, so whatever”. I think that attitude has somewhat of a point, as far as if an apology is demanded it should be demanded by the wronged, not random moviegoers. But the apathetic nature of that thinking is something I don’t agree with, and I think it would make a general apology almost pointless. The masses don’t care or aren’t affected by it, and the people who do care online will just get more upset.

Let the apologies be between Joss and those he’s wronged, and have him grow as a person because of it. That’s what I’d like to see, at least.

 

[TheXandyman]

I just focus on the fact that the production of Buffy was a team effort.

It's like when i watch 'That 70's show' knowing that one of the main guys is a convicted rapist. When i laugh at a line the character speaks, i'm actually praising the writers: they wrote it.

As my sister said when i told her about Whedon - if we stopped watching every movie and tv show that had a controversial actor or producer, then we wouldnt have anything to watch.

 

[Taake]

. Besides, a lot of actors have never had business or industrial experience and a lot of us have seen toxic workplaces and understand that you can't get everything you want and this sort of thing happens all the time.

I agree, but I can’t help but wonder if it would help him to go with something generic like ”I’ve learned from past mistakes and actions” etc ”I’ve turned a new leaf” or something.

Even if a small gesture, it seems like something that would appease streaming services and the like.

 

[Synch]

As far as I can tell, or I just see, he is doing fine, thin, healthy, happy with his wife between L.A. and London where he often hangs out with the Moffats.

I have no idea what kind of horrible actions he did during his Buffy years but the fact that many of his team and cast are still friends with him (including all the 'non diva' feel of them: Amy, Jewel, Nathan, Alan, writers... ) (even someone so powerful like Johansson still talks very well about him) somehow tells me the question was more about being a mean boss. He had problems with the cast he did not have full power when they hired them (because, at the beginning, it was him but also Fox, Warner, Sandollar... I bet CC, with her Baywatch experience (and mods) was one of the 'suggestions' by the network) and had 0 when he did it from the start (Firefly).

Apparently nothing happened during his Marvel years or with The Nevers. The HBO top executive producer, a female producer who began with The Sopranos, still welcome him/Heather and are friends with them.

As for his income: aside from the residuals of every show, he just recently had 7 years of Agents of Shield, working in it for about 7 months (while prep or Avengers 2 and works in every Phase 2 film), then doing nothing more, but with his company and his name in every episode so, yup, he was basically like the Kuzius with Buffy TV: money for nothing.

 

[Synch]

Taake, yep, Steven Moffat and his family. Including his son who was one of the actors in Midnight Mass TV series and her girlfriend (she was on that show too). Apparenty they live close to Joss and Heather London home. They watched Wimbledon final together, spent evenings etc

Btw another one of his friends is Jeremy Latchman: he produced some Marvel movies...

 

[Synch]

Taake: Steven Moffat was a Doctor Who writer and then showrunner. He also did Dracula (TV series) and Sherlock (TV series) along Mark Gatiss. His sense of humour is very Jossian. Many of Dracula's dialogue are very Jossian LOL

 

[Tome]

Honestly, I think there are only two possibilities that can explain why Joss has refused to speak about it all.

1) Joss' actions were not that bad and it's mainly him having been an asshole to certain actresses he had a grudge against, and, thus, he chose not to even respond to the accusations because it would just blow things out of proportion and affect his somewhat-damaged public image.

2) Joss' actions were pretty bad and he knows it. He knows that there is not much he could say or do to make things better, so he prefers to just stay quiet, as only some of the public will hear about it and care. If he was to respond and things kept coming out, he could fully ruin his career.

Either way, Joss was at the very least a bad boss and wasn't as much of a feminist as he used to claim to be. I'll admit I did find these revelations disappointing, but let's remember the Buffyverse was built and given life by more than one man.

As for the OP, I don't really think it matters. There will always be people who hate him and people who defend him no matter what.

 

[NoShip]

As far as I can tell, or I just see, he is doing fine, thin, healthy, happy with his wife between L.A. and London where he often hangs out with the Moffats.

I have no idea what kind of horrible actions he did during his Buffy years but the fact that many of his team and cast are still friends with him (including all the 'non diva' feel of them: Amy, Jewel, Nathan, Alan, writers... ) (even someone so powerful like Johansson still talks very well about him) somehow tells me the question was more about being a mean boss. He had problems with the cast he did not have full power when they hired them (because, at the beginning, it was him but also Fox, Warner, Sandollar... I bet CC, with her Baywatch experience (and mods) was one of the 'suggestions' by the network) and had 0 when he did it from the start (Firefly).

Apparently nothing happened during his Marvel years or with The Nevers. The HBO top executive producer, a female producer who began with The Sopranos, still welcome him/Heather and are friends with them.

As for his income: aside from the residuals of every show, he just recently had 7 years of Agents of Shield, working in it for about 7 months (while prep or Avengers 2 and works in every Phase 2 film), then doing nothing more, but with his company and his name in every episode so, yup, he was basically like the Kuzius with Buffy TV: money for nothing.

So..... Because Whedon has friends, he is not a really bad guy?

What has come out is a really ugly picture of a control freak who demanded that you either kissed his ass the way he liked it or you got to meet his evil twin, Skippy.

Lots of on the record statements of Whedon's bullying and abuse. From different people over decades.

I would expect Whedon to have friends. I would expect a bunch of the his favorites to remain on good terms with him. I would expect people in his tax bracket to openly hang out with him.

None of his current activities in any way dispute what happened.

 

[Synch]

My point if he did horrible actions, people who was with him every day, they would know it.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

My point if he did horrible actions, people who was with him every day, they would know it.

Doesn't mean they would speak on it, other than those that already have. There are people that still stand behind and support Bill Cosby for pete's sake. Not implying Whedon is comparable to Cosby.

 

[Synch]

He had little public support aside from Kranz, Fillion and of course Johansson because apparently she doesn't give a damn about it if she liked to work for him (see Woody Allen). What I mean is private friendship, dinners, lunch, even hiking weekends or a Christmas Party, with only a few Instagram friends knowing it and, of course, far away from fans noticing it. Even attending J August Richards wedding. So, again, if he was/is a monster, it is strange many of them still are friends with him including Marti. She and Joss were haha/love you/miss on Twitter just 24h before mr Fisher tweet. And she saw him almost every day from 1997 to 2003 (both offices were side by side).

But, well, my theory is about the problem being between certain Hollywood antics and Joss having like 0 patience for it in a bad way.

 

[NoShip]

He had little public support aside from Kranz, Fillion and of course Johansson because apparently she doesn't give a damn about it if she liked to work for him (see Woody Allen). What I mean is private friendship, dinners, lunch, even hiking weekends or a Christmas Party, with only a few Instagram friends knowing it and, of course, far away from fans noticing it. Even attending J August Richards wedding. So, again, if he was/is a monster, it is strange many of them still are friends with him including Marti. She and Joss were haha/love you/miss on Twitter just 24h before mr Fisher tweet. And she saw him almost every day from 1997 to 2003 (both offices were side by side).

But, well, my theory is about the problem being between certain Hollywood antics and Joss having like 0 patience for it in a bad way.

Your theory is incorrect. Whedon was truly a monster. He demanded adoration and those willing to adore him (in the sense of kissing Whedon's ass the way he liked it kissed) had good relationships. Those unwilling to kiss ass had bad relationships.

Gal Gadot stated, on the record, what working for Whedon was like. Now, think about what it was like for a young actress, on her first major job, who was not world famous, not one one of the more 'bankable' stars and not directly connected with the studio's executives to face an 'unamused' Whedon. Or, just read the Vulture article or the Variety article or the Hollywood Reporter article or think through the meaning of 'remedial measures were taken' in the Warner Bros. report on the Justice League allegations.

I am still not sure why Whedon having friends, we all do, no matter how badly we may treat others, has to do with his decision to publically appologize or not.

 

[Synch]

My theory is incorrect because of Gadot (at least she said something precise, because Mr Fisher still said nothing) and articles. Ok. There is still 0 legal accusation of anything or even one 'he did THIS' in any remote MeToo level more than to be a mean boss. Even MT comments had Joss saying he even don't remember any rule and a source said it was due to a verbal exchange.

My point is it is difficult to be friends with bad people, violent ones, or Cosby/Weinstein type of villains. I doubt they hang out with, idk, Cosby cast or Scream cast. All of Joss friends from the shows, with their private reunions with him or attending Heather's new exhibition in L.A., know their truth, know him and had/have no problem with anything to bad to be unforgivable.

 

[NoShip]

There is still 0 legal accusation of anything or even one 'he did THIS' in any remote MeToo level more than to be a mean boss.

There is no legal claim because the statute of limitations has run.

Plus, there is the Hollywood Cancel Culture to deal with. So, if an actor has any kind of career, they won't risk it for 25-year-old (or 3-month-old) abuses. The people who have been specific are no longer working in the industry. Or, they are at the top of the feeding chain like Gal Gadot.