Joss's thoughts on the season

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dan k

Bangel Is Eternal
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I've just been watching the special features on season 4 and there's a particular overview of the season which sees Joss give his take on the season.

What was interesting to me was how Joss spoke about how many fans felt that this was the season where he dropped the ball. His take was that individually the episodes in season 4 were some of his best work yet the overall arc wasn't as strong as the season went a bit all over the place with the initiative.

I've seen many people on this board say similar things about season 4, thought people would like to know that Joss held a similar sort of view.
 
dan k said:
I've just been watching the special features on season 4 and there's a particular overview of the season which sees Joss give his take on the season.

What was interesting to me was how Joss spoke about how many fans felt that this was the season where he dropped the ball. His take was that individually the episodes in season 4 were some of his best work yet the overall arc wasn't as strong as the season went a bit all over the place with the initiative.

I've seen many people on this board say similar things about season 4, thought people would like to know that Joss held a similar sort of view.
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Very interesting point. I didn't know that. I really need to watch more of these special features at some point.

Any good quotes?
 
It was quite a short piece so in terms of quotes nothing jumps out. It is all there in what i said in terms of Joss touching on the arc and people thinking "they dropped the ball with season 4."
 
I think that makes a lot of sense, and it's something we fans have said a lot: really good, strong episodes, some of the funniest stuff in the series, but a lame villain. It would've been better off if Maggie had been the villain.
 
I completely agree. To appreciate season 4, you really have to zoom in and look at the episodes individually. It really is quite funny and dramatic and scary and everything that makes Buffy so great.

The big arc, however, sorta lame. I think it's unfortunate that one bad villain can overshadow an otherwise great season.
 
I felt this season wasn't that great, I prefer the seasons before. One big theme in season 4 that I noticed was change, David Boreanaz, Seth Green and Charisma Carpenter leave the show, the scoobies are in University, and everyone drifts apart. Adam was lame (IMO) and I can understand Buffy turning soft in the beginning of the season, but I felt it dragged on a little to long. Like everyone is saying, the individual episodes are great but the overall arc needed some work
 
I used to really not like season 4 and while I still don't love everything about Adam and the Initiative, I have a lot more respect for it now. The theme of growing up and not quite knowing what to do is strong in this season and I didn't really like the awkwardness a the time, but now I can see better what they are trying to do.
 
S
Summerlilly
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I'd have to agree that season 4 could have been much better; the Initiative and Adam had some good potential but I don't think it was executed well. I do think that the writers "dropped the ball" with the big arc, but other aspects of the season were strong. I liked how they touched on Buffy growing up and not being certain of what that meant. I also thought there was some really funny writing. Riley was entertaining and I enjoyed watching his relationship with Buffy (although I knew it wouldn't last).
 
The show went through growing pains in this year because it's characters did, which is a compelling thing to consider. It was a transition from kids to adulthood and the season reflects it. It came off the high that was season three 3, loosing three fo the seven main cast and replaced them all thus creating a new dynamic and relationships. The arc wasn't as strong but if you watch Graduation Day Part 2 and jump straight into Buffy vs. Dracula the change amongst them all is astounding. Stuff happened but season 3 was totally bank, hard to follow! Ugh, screw Maggie Walsh, though.
 
Well everyone has pretty much summed it up already. Crappy Big Bad but amazing individual episodes. Do you think Joss has ever come to BB to scope out what his fans are thinking????
 
He's a good fan mind reader. And it's exactly what it is, IMO. Without the main arc or other mini arcs, I think that might have been my favorite season. I was trying to figure out my favorite season for a few years now, and I came to conclusion that that's the season I enjoy most, it's just so fun. I know it's NOT the best season, but it could have been if some things were different. Yeah, he dropped the ball there. He had a big chance for a great season, but then he stuck Adam, Riley, the Initiative, Walsh, all those bad things I wish weren't there.

Also, Willow's new haircut really fit her. At first I was a little terrified, because it's scary for me to see a woman that used to have a long hair, cuts it short all of a sudden. But she totally pulled it off!

And of course THE best decision he made for this season, is making James a regular. Thank you so much for that, joss. I guess without him, we wouldn't have gotten this many comedic scenes, he gave me a good laugh.
 
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dan k
Love your banner and i totally agree about James
I think Season 4 is very, very strong in the character development department. To me, with shows like Buffy it's more important that the characters progress than the story does. The season was about the change that comes after high school, and the show highlighted that perfectly:

* Buffy getting over her first love and attempting to have a normal life and a normal boyfriend.
* Willow discovering her powers and finding Tara.
* Xander finding his place. I noticed that this is really the season where Xander is the lowest on the Scooby food chain.
* Giles being a man of leisure. And constantly snacking.

And so forth. All the characters go through enormous changes and the show is all the better for being able to move past high school and all the associated baggage.

Then, of course, there's the integration of Anya and Spike and Tara into the gang, and the manner in which they all joined will effect them for the rest of the series.

And, of course, the masterpiece of Restless: an examination of the Core Four and what they mean to one another. Past, present and future, intertwined, with an enormous heaping of foreshadowing thrown in!

Season 4 is my favorite season some days. 🙂
 
I do think the season suffered a bit of a hangover from Season 3 (the show's peak IMO).

I mean Joss had a lot of things on his plate. How do you adequately replace the Buffy/Angel dynamic? How do you replace the Faith/Buffy dynamic? How should one deal with Seth Green's exit and the development of Willow as a character?

I think Joss had the right idea in places but he rushed the execution. Buffy and Riley could have been a more of a slow burner. Buffy didn't another *need* boyfriend straight after Angel and more importantly, I don't think the show really needed her to have one either. I think Willow and Tara should have been a slow burner too.

I do think the idea of Adam was intruiging but it was poorly executed.

In sum, I think the show was going through a transitional period and as with every transitional period, things can go bad for awhile.
 
S
sylvanscribe
[No message]
Season 4 is extremely entertaining, and has amazing episodes. But I do have to agree, the big bad was not that great. Other than that, everything else was wonderful.
 
There were definitely some great episodes ... "Hush" as one of the best 'Monster of the Week' episodes ever, and "Something Blue" as comedic genius. Among others.

As some people stated above, I think the Initiative and Adam looked good on paper but were poorly executed.

I also, unlike a lot of fans, am not totally happy with the characterization. I still have doubts that Willow and Tara were a good thing. I'm not sure Spike needed a chip in his head. I like Anya but I'm not sure she needed to be Xander's main squeeze. And then there is Riley ... complete blah.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I think there were a lot of interesting things they could have done with the characters and the show that they didn't.
 
Season four was definitely a little disjointed in terms of plot. But yeah as far as character development it was stellar. Seems fitting that Restless would be the finale when you consider that.
 
I liked Season 4; the Big Bad was a bit weak but I enjoyed Season 4 as much as the others to be honest. The only one I wasn't overly fond of was Season 6, but that was it 🙂.
 
Season 4 is actually one of my favorite seasons. And it's because the character development was outstanding, IMO. Now, I do agree that Adam was a super lame big bad. It felt very forced and almost rushed, which is sad because they could've done so much more with the initiative. And personally, I liked the idea of the initiative. It felt very real that if these sort of creatures existed with this much power, the american military would try to harness it, and of course, since the mystical world works by it's own rules, it failed miserably. I still thought it was a cool concept though.

But yea, the character development is fantastic. Watching Buffy and Willow do the college thing and Xander just trying to keep up with them. It was a very needed time in the show. College is a big transition so I felt they did the characters justice with having them sort of drift away from each other the way they did - which paid off in season 5 when one of the major themes of that season was family.

And Something Blue, and Hush are just awesome, awesome episodes. Giles: "So the plan is to cure my incapacitating blindness - tomorrow, is it?" So good!
 
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