Joyce or The First Evil?

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Joshua

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Was it confirmed that "Joyce" in Bring On The Night and Conversations With Dead People
 
I recall reading Jane Espenson was suprised we didn't know it wasn't Joyce in Conversation with dead people, it was The First. So I assume it's the same with all the other "Joyce" apperances as well.

I think, in hindsight, it's very easy for me to say "Of course, that can't be Joyce. She's trying to turn Dawn against Buffy, and Buffy against her friends, and male Buffy hopeless."
 
When I watched it, I thought it was Joyce, but it was actually the First. There was actually a deleted section in the script that went something like this--

DAWN: They said I couldn't bring you back.

JOYCE: Maybe I'm the First.
 
Yer in the commentary on the Season 7 DVD for CWDP Jane Espenson revealed that the Joyce is The First here. I always assumed it was.
 
I read somewhere that it was supposed to be Joyce in CWDP. Joss' plan for season 7 was that the entire season would explore Dawn's "key-ness". Maybe I dreamed that I read it...but I'm almost certain that it wasn't supposed to be The First when they originally wrote the scene.
 
I always thought it was actually Joyce til I read a transcript of the commentary on CWDP. I was kinda shocked 'cause The First fooled me, too. 😉
 
It was definitely The First. It was trying to turn everyone against each others, including Dawn and Buffy.
 
It wasn't all that clear who it was I thought. I thought it was the first though, but I didn't get it at first (mihihi "at first" 😉). I watched the show with my best friend recently and when the last ep was over she was very disappointed and said: but what about the thing that joyce said? "buffy won't choose you???". Turns out she thought it was joyce, hadn't stopped thinking about that and thought it would be revealed in the last ep.
 
Are we sure that the First Evil was Joyce?

Was there any cannon confirmation or from the writers etc that Joyce in Conversations was The First?
 
What she said to Dawn hurt so much because it was true. I just can't believe the real Joyce would have said what she did. It was The First.
 
This is from wikipedia 🙂

On the DVD commentary for the show, Jane Espenson revealed that the image of Joyce is The First. In the original draft of the script, Dawn was going to try to raise her mother. When Joyce appeared, she was to say, "They said I couldn't bring someone back." To which The First/Joyce would reply: "Maybe I'm the First."
Click to expand...
 
Jodast
Jodast
yay wiki research :)
I like to believe it was Joyce, no real reason, but I just think it fits the story better.
 
The first time I watched it, I think I thought it was actually Joyce, just because of all the crazy "ghosty" stuff that was happening. Instead of her just appearing, it seemed as though something was holding her back, etc. But the stuff she said wasn't exactly...great.

The second time though, already knowing the end and everything, I assumed it was The First just messing with Dawn by making her THINK it was really her mother.

The First has a flair for the dramatic, it would seem. 🙂
 
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