Joyce: Spike or Angel for Buffy

Urgent Power

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I noticed during the years watching Buffy that Joyce doesn't really like Angel, or at least doesn't want him with Buffy very much. Maybe 'cause of what happened when he went bad. Maybe because he's a vampire. And I'm not talking just about season 3 when she asked Angel to leave Buffy. But on the other hand, Spike is a vampire, and without a soul, and she did like him. So that's my second question. Do you think Joyce wanted Buffy to be with Spike? And not with Angel? Would she rather her daughter to be with the vampire without a soul?
 
I think if Joyce had a choice (hey, that rhymes!), Buffy would be with Riley forever and ever. Cause he's safe and predictable.
 
I agree, at least partially with BB. Joyce would have wanted Buffy to find someone human to spend her life with. Her introduction to Angel, or more accurately Angelus, pretty much left a lasting impression, and even though I think that she genuinely liked Spike, I have my doubts as to whether she would want her baby being with him either.

Joyce wanted for Buffy what practically all mothers want for their daughters: a stable home, a family, and someone to grow old with. Neither Angel nor Spike could provide that, even if they were human and completely mortal. Mostly, I think that Joyce would have wanted Buffy to somehow become de-Slayer-ized and settle down with Joe Normal in the suburbs, have two Normal children, drive an SUV, and attend the PTA regularly.

But if she had to choose, and those two vampires were her only choices, I think that, based on her feelings for, and experiences with, the two of them, she would choose Spike. And then she would assure him that she would stake him if he ever harmed so much as a hair on her baby's head.
 
I agree I think if Joyce had a choice in any way between any of Buffy's Boyfriends it would definately be Riley.... but when it came down to Buffy/Spike or Buffy/Angel i really dont even think Joyce would want either. I mean When Joyce was around she liked Spike as a per..Is he considered a person? But she knew Buffy had no feelings for him at that point so the possibility of Spike/Buffy at that time wasn't present.... I think things would have been completely different if they were dating at the time Joyce was around cause i seriously doubt she'd approve of it.
 
Angelic Slayer
Angelic Slayer
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I
InsaneMystic
no need for me to post anymore, you said it all.
Yeah I have to agree that Joyce wouldn't want her dating either of them. She and Angel never seemed to be very comfortable with each other and even though she was friendly enough with Spike she was pretty freaked when his love of her was revealled in Crush - she encouraged Buffy to talk to him and make it clear that she wasn't interested. So yeah, i think Joyce would pick a human boy for her human daughter.
 
I think she could have come around to Spike, because she knew what he can be like deep down. But she definately prefered him as a freind for Buffy than a boyfriend. As Tranquillity said, her reaction in Crush was one of shock and disbelief. She had obviousy never really considered it, probably because Buffy hadn't. Seeing him with Dawn though? I think she always understood Spike, just as she understood that Angel was bad for Buffy because what they had was so good and tempting.

No, that wasn't a pro-Bangel comment. Don't be daft. It's a bad thing that what they had was good.
 
Well, IDEALLY, I think Joyce would have picked NONE of Buffy's boyfriends, including Riley. I think she'd have rathered Buffy find some nice guy who had NOTHING to do with demons all together and would whisk her away from this life entirely.

In fact, AS a mother, I like Riley LESS than the two vampires because there is just as much danger surrounding him, but less "super strength" plus he's in the "out" crowd. At least will Spike or Angel she was somewhat protected from your average demon attack.

But, as far as Spike and Angel go, I think Joyce would like Spike better hands down. Probably for the same reasons I like Spike better.
1.) He did NOT deflower her daughter when she was 16.
2.) Without a soul, he was still quite personable and not the stark raving mad homicidal maniac that Angelus is.
3.) Without a soul, he's still a trustworthy baby-sitter.
4.) He likes little marshmellows in his hot chocolate.
5.) Even with the sarcasm, he's a lot more up-beat and happy than Angel is.
6.) His soul doesn't magically disappear.
7.) He did FIGHT for his soul FOR her daughter.
and
8.) He has a list a mile long for WHY he loves Buffy, which you'd better bet any serious suitor for MY daughter had better have!
 
D
DarkAvenger
You said everything i had in mind. ;) But we'll never know for sure =/
B
Blondie Bear
And he got along with Joyce really well--he honestly liked her, even soulless.
Joyce had very differnet interactions with Spike and Angel.

Angel was basically Buffys dirty little secret for basically an entire year. And as already stated, he took her daughters "innocence"

Plus given the fact that the only real time Buffy talked about Angel to her was when he was Angelus. When Angel came back Buffy mainly kept him to herself.

When Joyce has primarly been around Spike he was playing goody two shoes. He was acting nice to save Dru, and the other times he had a chip in his head so he wasnt even a threat. Plus he already begun developing feelings for Buffy. But Joyce doesnt really know about Spikes past deeds or his entire S2 and S4 of trying to kill her daughter.

But in the end Joyce wouldnt have picked neither given the reason why she asked Angel to break up with Buffy. Angel and Spike cant give Buffy a real life filled with going out together during the day or having kids. Joyce wants Buffy to lead the most normal life she can.
 
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But in the end Joyce wouldnt have picked neither given the reason why she asked Angel to break up with Buffy. Angel and Spike cant give Buffy a real life filled with going out together during the day or having kids. Joyce wants Buffy to lead the most normal life she can.

Well, you're right about that.. But i think Joyce would never be satisfied! She wants a normal guy for her but at the same time i think she wants someone who could protect her. Well, the problem is there isn't anyone who has these 2 things.
 
I
InsaneMystic
[No message]
I think Riley is normal enough for Joyce. And as far as protection goes, she knows she doesnt have to worry about that from some guy.
 
Angel when in Buffy was in my opinion completly lacking charisma. Spike on the other hand was charming and funny. Maybe she saw that buffy trusted spike much more than she let on. who knows. but joyce never seemed happy. then she died *sigh*
 
Wow, that makes me think things that would never happen, like: what if Joyce was alive and both Angel and Spike were human? (I know, it wouldn't have been "Buffy the Vampire Slayer").
 
As many of you guys said, I think she would have ticked the option 'None of the above'. Both guys were vampires and so immediately made them inappropriate. I think she always saw Spike as less of a threat in the sense of relationships, even after the revelation in Crush, because that's what they all presumed it to be; a crush. "Some weird Spike thing". However, she has The Talk with Angel in The Prom because I think she knows that what's between Buffy and Angel is huge, is the big love and so he needed to leave before the two got in even deeper than they already were ("When it comes to you Angel, she's just like any other young woman in love. You're all she can see of tomorrorw"). Didn't The Watcher's Guide say something about just seeing him as a man who was wrong for her daughter? But with Spike she never so those feelings that he eventually developed ever reciprocated from Buffy so there was never the same concern. So I don't think it was ever a preference for Buffy, but more the one she deemed less of a threat in the 'Developing as a couple' department. When Spike became a slight threat in that matter in Crush she suddenly went from laughing with him over gallery order slip-ups to saying 'I don't like this, he could become dangerous...and Spike he's pretty [twisted]'. Fickle much?

As people though, I think she always preferred Spike because her experiences with him were less...I ant to say less dark but the first time she meets him he's trying to kill her daughter which isn't exactly Lollipop Land Light. But He never directly tried to kill her, or taunted her with the concept of sleeping with her daughter, etc etc. Actually in Lovers Walk she's fully under the (mis)understanding that Spike is the good one and Angel is (still) the bad one. Which is why when Buffy attacks Spike and invites Angel in I think you hear Joyce say 'Okay, I'm confused again'. But once she learns Angel's good she seems to deal with him quite well. I think it's Enemies when he and Faith turn up (Him pretending to be evil) and Joyce says hello to him quite pleasantly, even joking with him over hoping there's no vampire attack coming. Plus, she totally glows in a smug little get-me way when he compliments her hair. (The first time I saw that little bit, it was such an Angelus thing to do it gave me little mini chills). But I think her preference always leant more to Spike personality wise because she had more good experiences with him than she did with Angel. Plus Spike was good with Dawn. Admittedly, we never see Angel with lil sis but considering his broody nature we can presume they weren't braiding each other's hair.

Now, I've gone to a really amusing visual place...where was I?

Ah yes, boyfriend choiceage. I think if she had to pick any boyfriend Joyce would want Riley for Buffy if we discount the whole vampire whores thing from Into the Woods. Because up to that moment I think it's everything that Joyce wanted for Buffy; a normal guy, a good guy, family guy (not the TV show though...), and knew about her Slayerness and accpeted it so Buffy had nothing to hide, plus he was the strong protective guy at the same time. Could he be a more perfect potential son-in-law?

I think Kristine Sutherland says something about this choice in an interview though...let me find it. (I realize since I'll post this as one none of you will even notice the time it took to find the interview). Ah here we go, she was asked 'As Buffy's Mom, who do you think is better for Buffy?'. She replied:

"Oh gosh, as Buffy's Mom...Riley. But as an audience member and great romantic, I love that, that relationship between Buffy and Angel. But as Buffy's Mom I would have to say that Riley is probably the healthier choice!"
 
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