Joyce's Warning

I GOT IT I GOT IT!!!!!!!! (well if i've got it you've got it now)

blackadder quotes aside

in 'lies my parents told me' Giles and Buffy are in the graveyard discussing spike, and how things have changed after all buffy's been through.

Giles- would you let this vampire live if it meant saving the world?
(after he asks her not to stake the vamp she's fighting with, remember giles only found out not long before that that buffy had decided to remove spikes chip)
buffy and the vamp banter
(b-looks like a nice enough guy.... richard.....hi rich... etc)

Buffy- giles we had this conversation, when i told you i wouldn't sacrifice Dawn to stop Glory from destroying the world.

Giles- ah yes but things are different now, aren't they... after what you've been through... faced with the same choice, now, you'd let her die.

Buffy- If I had to.... to save the world, yes.

(Giles still wont let her dust the vamp and goes on to say "you really do understand... that anyone of us is expendable in this war...

Buffy- HAVE YOU HEARD MY SPEECHES? (LOL)

and then Giles brings up spike... (which Robin has set off his trigger and is now trying to kill, vengeful style) Buffy is caught off guard and is tackled by the vamp, more lol'ness


so yeah the first was right.... the first was joyce... here endeth the lesson... or something
 
J
Joyce Summers
That's, erm, kinda what I posted about before on this thread....;-)
H
hyperballadbrad
Yep.... telling twisted truthes to damage, hurt and instill distrust! Love it!
I always found it kind of confusing that Buffy changed her mind about Dawn. I mean, she was so vigilant about never hurting Dawn (When she said something to the effect of "I'll kill anyone that tries to hurt Dawn") Yet, then when she's talking to Giles later on, she admits she understands the big picture now, and she would kill Dawn to save the world is she "had too".

anything else think this is strange?
 
H
hyperballadbrad
Not at all.... because in the fight for the entire world, as in fakeshemp's post she's been through so much that she understands the power and responsibility she holds and that nothing is ever black and white
I think Buffy had been to a very dark place and wasn't quite as willing to sacrifice herself anymore. And she knew that self-sacrifice lead to Heaven, so she knew Dawn would be in a good place if she died.
 
H
hyperballadbrad
I don't think it's about thinking not to sacrifice herself.... but more like she won't sacrifice herself for something close to her at the expense of possibly more people.
I never thought of it like that. I figured it was just that she no longer cared about anything - including Dawn - like she had just given up. The mission is all she cared about.
 
B
Blondie Bear
That was probably part of it. I think she was a very angry young lady at that point.
H
hyperballadbrad
No way! it's not that she didn't CARE more, but she understood more. She knew that things can't be pigeon holed and sometimes she has to weigh the pros and cons for the greater good
well she was saying that if she had to chose between saving dawn again and saving the world her outlook has changed and so would her desision. maybe its cuz she come to the realisation that the world is bigger than her family and she needs to protect it. dawn always annoyed me. but yeah. i dont know. it was the uber evil first now really joyce i guess talking. trying to turn people against each other.
 
I actually don't think it was Joyce - I think it was probably the First trying as he did with all of the other members of the gang to demoralise and scare them so that during the final battle they'd be less effective.

However - if the vision was Joyce then it was a warning to Dawn that Buffy would send her away from where the danger was right before the gang and the potentials went down into the cave system under the seal - which of course Buffy did when she asked Xander to take Dawn away.
 
I thought the scene alluded to the point when Buffy was kicked out of the house and Dawn stepping up to her saying (paraphrasing) you are either with us or not. At least that is how it is justified in my mind.
 
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