Jumping Ship

[Taake]

Well on Buffy and Angel I've actually always been rather fond of all ships, at least while viewing for the first time (with the exception of Cangel which - opposite to This Year's Girl - I just find it a trite and hackeneyed plotline that should never ever, ever, ever have been).

It's only during recent re-watches that I've grown less fond of Spuffy, to the point of dislike, but beyond that my shipping preferences are as they always have been. Love them all more or less but Bangel especially. 🙂 (hm maybe I don't love Killow but I don't mind it either)

On other shows I do tend to end up with some ship I more or less prerfer (e.g. Donna/James on Twin Peaks) but none I can really recall off the top of my head. My favorite shows outside of the Whedonverse are Supernatural and Criminal Minds and they're both pretty non-shippy 🙂

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I agree about that too. I don't really see Buffy being perfect with anyone she's been with to be honest. But I've started to prefer Bangel over Spuffy because I think Spike and Buffys love was harmful. I don't want to make this about a Spuffy/Bangel discussion though, so let's just settle with me saying that I think that some of the things that happend in the Spuffy relationship is things I don't want younger persons (or anyone really) to associate with love. I see good in the relationship too though and I agree that Spike brought forward Buffy's funnier side. 🙂 But I think Angel was a good match, and I do think he really loved her and that they helped each other evolve as persons.

Not to make this a Spuffy/Bangel discussion, just one thing. While I do agree about Buffy and Spike harming each other, that doesn't mean they can't have a healthy relationship. What happened was in their past. Their future might be brighter. They do have a potential of becoming a happy couple (regardless of Joss' mean intentions towards couple lol), now that they actually respect each other and trust each other.

 

[KellGreen]

I liked Bangel before Spuffy happened, but not nearly as much. I'm the same age as most of the actors, so I was down with Bangel at the time, not yet having known what an adult relationship was. I missed Spuffy the first time through (off living my own tragic Bangel-like thing). When i finally had the chance to catch S6 I was blown away by it. And hooked. Aside from DVD's, the only merch I have ever got for anything is my signed Spuffy picture.

 

[kndizzle]

The first episode of the TV show that I ever saw was "Once More With Feeling," and I immediately saw the connection between Buffy and Spike. I was hooked on the show immediately, and since it was in syndication earlier in the day, two episodes a day, monday through Friday, I was able to catch up on what was happening pretty quickly. I remember (honestly, this is no joke, I swear) seeing Buffy and Angel together in a Season 3 episode and thinking, "Who's the Neanderthal hanging around Spike's girl?" That's what she always was to me. Spike's girl. I didn't know anything about Bangels, Spuffies, Cangels, Twillows, or any other kind of ship, except for the ones that I served on in the Navy, until I found and joined the (now defunct) Official Buffy Website and it's forum.

As a bribe for getting someone, who shall remain nameless, to return to the forum, I shipped Bangel for a whole month, which proved to be a real eye opening experience for me, and it was at that time that the idea of Adopt-A-Bangel first occurred to me. Seeing the hopelessness and despair of the poor Bangels just broke my heart, and I knew that I had to do something to bring them into the true light of Spuffy. "Friends don't let friends ship Bangel" became the watchword and the goal of my association with the Buffy community then, and remains so to this day, and I am quite proud to say that the very Bangel friend who I helped to bring back to the Boards was also the very first lifetime member of Adopt-A-Bangel. When I invited her to join, she was so thrilled and overcome with joy that she was struck so absolutely speechless that she couldn't even find the words to thank me, and remains so even to this day.

I'm going to ignore your jabs at beloved ship and marvel at the fact that we got hooked on Buffy the same way! Caught it in syndication and then went and bought the first 3 seasons. Did it effect the way you viewed Buffy to start in season 4 and then start from the beginning? I started from Welcome to The Hellmouth, so I've always wondered what it would've been like to start somewhere in the middle. (Also, although I am offended you would try to sway us happy and content Bangels away from the ship that got me hooked on Buffy for life, the Adopt-A-Bangel idea makes me laugh endlessly.)

The only ship I have ever actively shipped, is Bangel. Quite frankly I don't think I have any room or energy to truly ship anything else. Whedonverse or not.

In literally every case, whether I start the show from the beginning or catch it on boxset, I always ship the couples that "are meant to be" and end up together.

Total agreement, especially about the last part. I've been really lucky, I've very rarely shipped something that completely crashed and burned. And that's saying something since I grew up watching soap operas with my mom and grandmother. (Don't judge me) Also in agreement about the hardcore Bangel shipping. Out of any couple in any of the series I've watched they are my OTP. Definitely. They were the first and last couple to keep me up at night wondering what would happen to them.

 

[LoveLoveLovix]

I'm pretty mellow to all the Buffy ships, though I identify myself as a Spuffy, Killow, Xanya, and... do we have a catchy name for Giles/Joyce? But (with the exception of Bangel, which I never felt), I like all the others. I never jumped ships because I never felt need to. I love them all, I just love some more than others. And since I had some Buffy-spoiling friends before I watched the show, I usually knew about other relationships.

In other fandoms, I'm more an anti-shipper... I'm more likely to complain about ships I don't like (such as Sky/Bloom in Winx Club, Simon/Isabelle in Mortal Instruments or Archer/Sophie in Hex Hall) than I am to actually ship the ones I enjoy. Maybe I'm a bit of a jerk.

And for some reason, I ALWAYS tend to love fanon pairings more (with the exception of Spuffy being such beautiful canon. But Spander is win too).

 

[white avenger]

I'm going to ignore your jabs at beloved ship and marvel at the fact that we got hooked on Buffy the same way! Caught it in syndication and then went and bought the first 3 seasons. Did it effect the way you viewed Buffy to start in season 4 and then start from the beginning? I started from Welcome to The Hellmouth, so I've always wondered what it would've been like to start somewhere in the middle. (Also, although I am offended you would try to sway us happy and content Bangels away from the ship that got me hooked on Buffy for life, the Adopt-A-Bangel idea makes me laugh endlessly.)

Almost certainly, starting watching Buffy well into Season 5 affected my views on the Slayer and who her real true love actually was. Then, later, when I finally saw the beginning seasons, I was able to resist the brain washing that so many early viewers fell victim to.

No, seriously, if I had started watching the series from the very beginning, my views on Buffy and who she really belonged with might have been different, but I couldn't really say for sure. I've always been a sucker for the guy who's been constantly overshadowed and rejected all of his life, but just keeps getting up one time more than he gets knocked down. Who nobody believes in, but he just keeps trying, and winds up as the hero who no one ever expected.

Angel obviously went through a lot of changes and a lot of suffering over his long career from scourge of Europe to Slayer's snuggle puppy, but, aside from a few flashbacks, most of which were on his own show, I just never saw it. It was like the soul, the redemption, the girl, the whole package was just handed to him on a silver platter. He never did anything to earn it. Not the soul, the girl, or the title of hero.

Spike earned everything that he had on the show. He fought for it, he suffered for it, he bled for it, and after all of that, he still had to prove to everyone that he deserved it. And we saw each and every step that he took on the road from monster to Champion. That's why I admire Spike, and why I sincerely believe that, if love can be earned, he earned it.

The more that I think of it, though, the more I think that Buffy should have worked harder to be worthy of that kind of love. Maybe she'll realize that in Season 9, and start getting her act together.

 

[Kean]

The more that I think of it, though, the more I think that Buffy should have worked harder to be worthy of that kind of love.

Worthy? WORTHY? WORTHY?

How the Hell does a person prove their worth for love? Who decides? What's the criteria? Is there an interview? An aptitude test, perhaps?

The mere thought that Buffy was not worthy of Spike, or anyone for that matter, makes me want to capslock the Hell out of you!

What would you like her to have done to be worthy of a love she never even wanted when it was presented to her?

And furthermore!

 

[Litheran]

I totally just saw that banner and it made me think of when Angel trained Cordelia and how uber hot that was.

Cangel for the win.

😀

 

[Flannen]

I have never, and will never, turn my back on any of my ships. Ever since I was young, I have picked out a couple and never been satisfied until they were together. From Kelly/Zack to Sabrina/Harvey lol I think I could watch any show and I'd find someone to ship with some level of passion!

Like Kean, they are always the 'meant to be' couples that just have to end up together. I've had to stick to the bitter end for many of my ships, especially Lucas/Peyton and Sydney/Vaughn but I have always known they would end up together. And with BtVS I have a similar thing with Bangel.

I can often find myself being appreciative of other ships, I love Jake and Peyton, for instance (although sometimes I can't. I actually cannot watch Spuffy at all) but it doesn't mean I'm abandoning ship. It tends to be more to do with my favourite characters being happy: as in I love Peyton so if Jake makes her happy for a bit while Lucas is being moronic elsewhere, then I'm okay with that! 😀

For those of that you know me, you'll have noticed the patten that it tends to be the first couple I see or that the show explores and I'm sold. But on a more serious note, all the ships I love tend to relfect that instant connection and spark that I have experienced and also represent that love stands for as far as I'm concerned.

I adored Willow/Oz and that meant I could never really feel any kind of fuzzy feelings to Willow/Tara especially because I didn't like Willow by this point. Similarly, I think one reason I dislike Spuffy so much is that Buffy becomes someone I cannot bear around the time their story starts.

Anyway, I have a very strong feeling that this a massive nonsensical ramble but I always have this trouble with shipping because I love my TV relationships so much!

 

[Blondie Bear]

After reading through this thread, it occurs to me that I come at the whole shipping thing way differently than the rest of you. Which just confirms that I am a complete freak, which I already knew. 😛

When I watch/read fantasy, it's an escape (when I'm not having to analyze it for a paper or something, ugh!), and I usually put myself into the story somehow, either by way over-identifying with one of the characters or Mary-Sueing the frak out of it and imagining what I would do if I were part of the story. Therefore, my ships tend to end up being the person I wish I was paired with the person I would be with if I had the option. Hence, I tend to identify as a Spuffy, because I want Spike for me. I like Sawyer/Kate because Kate's the one I identify with the most and I want Sawyer for me. Etcetera.

I also tend not to change ships too often because my taste in (fictional) men stays pretty much the same. But when I step back and think of it in terms of the show, I usually end up having not much of an opinion about ships as long as they serve the storyline--unless I HATE one of them, like Kennedy. Guh.

 

[zobothehobo]

Worthy? WORTHY? WORTHY?

How the Hell does a person prove their worth for love? Who decides? What's the criteria? Is there an interview? An aptitude test, perhaps?

The mere thought that Buffy was not worthy of Spike, or anyone for that matter, makes me want to capslock the Hell out of you!

What would you like her to have done to be worthy of a love she never even wanted when it was presented to her?

And furthermore!

Here are the facts:

1. Spike loved Buffy with everything he had.

2. Buffy was a total bitch about it.

3. Buffy needed Spike and used the hell out of him.

4. Spike still loved Buffy with everything he had.

5. Spike, as a soulless being, had no idea how to love a soulful being like Buffy.

6. Spike wanted to be what she deserved/needed.

7. SPIKE FIGHTS FOR AND WINS BACK HIS SOUL (and is the ONLY Buffyverse vampire to do that)

8. Buffy still isn't as nice and loving as I want her to be.


Um... yeah, she should have worked harder to be worthy of this kind of love. Oh not to mention I forgot this part...

Where Buffy acts like there's something wrong with Spike because he loves her and LEGIT makes him feel bad about himself because he loves her.

 

[LoveLoveLovix]

I totally see both sides of this. On one hand, I believe love is an unconditional thing. You don't really have to deserve it. If you did, the world would be a quite worse place. Love is redemption, love is forgiveness, love is knowing that you are alive, even if you shouldn't be (and in the Buffyverse, even if you technically aren't).

On the other hand, if someone loves you, they are putting an incredible trust into you- they are bearing their heart and soul (even if they don't have one). If you don't work to try and deserve that, there's something wrong with you. Love should bring out your best, not your worst. I hear so many people tell me that when you meet someone and start to spend your life with them, you improve so much as a person. Buffy wasn't trying to improve, while Spike was. That's a problem.

Well, that's my opinion on the issue.

 

[Kean]

Here are the facts

They are your opinions. Not fact. These are my opinion...

1. Spike loved Buffy with everything he had.

Eventually, he did. I wouldn't call S6 love. But that's my opinion. Also, Spike simply caring for Buffy in no way means that she has to reciprocate.

2. Buffy was a total bitch about it.

As she is absolutely entitled to be. Not to mention that it wasn't hearts and flowers Spike was offering Buffy, but freaky shrines and sexbots. The girl is entitled to react poorly to that.

3. Buffy needed Spike and used the hell out of him.

Buffy was depressed out of her mind and Spike did his own using.

4. Spike still loved Buffy with everything he had.

That still does not demand Buffy share his feelings. Or earn them.

5. Spike, as a soulless being, had no idea how to love a soulful being like Buffy.

Buffy as a soulful being did not want Spike's love and had no idea how to handle his advances.

6. Spike wanted to be what she deserved/needed.

That's what happens when you love someone.

7. SPIKE FIGHTS FOR AND WINS BACK HIS SOUL (and is the ONLY Buffyverse vampire to do that)

There isn't a single White Hat (and even a few Black Hats) on that show that don't fight for their soul and humanity. All the time. Constantly.

8. Buffy still isn't as nice and loving as I want her to be.

She showed more love and compassion to Spike in S7 than he deserved. If she doesn't love Spike the way you want you can't really blame Buffy. She can't make herself love him "correctly" anymore than Spike could stop himself loving her.

Where Buffy acts like there's something wrong with Spike because he loves her and LEGIT makes him feel bad about himself because he loves her.

Buffy was depressed for an entire season and was plagued with thoughts that she was "dirty", "unworthy" and "evil" when she was returned form Heaven. Spike knew this and in order to get what he wanted he played on these fears and told her she belonged in the darkness with demons, like him.

 

[zobothehobo]

I'm just super biases because Spike is so like me. So he's the one I want happy and it KILLS me that BECAUSE he loves Buffy, he's not happy. She's just so mean about it and I feel a lot of the time like Spike deserves better than Buffy. Better than someone who's going to be so mean.

And I'm not going to go through every one of those points Kean... just because I couldn't say anything I've not already said.

 

[sisterofmercy]

I've never switched ships. I think that the whole point of shipping something is that you stick with it and you believe in the power of the couple. There's nothing that would make me not be a Spuffy really, even the bathroom scene.

 

[Kean]

I'm just super biases because Spike is so like me. So he's the one I want happy and it KILLS me that BECAUSE he loves Buffy, he's not happy. She's just so mean about it and I feel a lot of the time like Spike deserves better than Buffy. Better than someone who's going to be so mean.

And I'm not going to go through every one of those points Kean... just because I couldn't say anything I've not already said.

I know, we've done this dance before but I just had to say my piece. Buffy is my girl and I couldn't not have her back.

🙂

 

[white avenger]

Worthy? WORTHY? WORTHY?

How the Hell does a person prove their worth for love? Who decides? What's the criteria? Is there an interview? An aptitude test, perhaps?

The mere thought that Buffy was not worthy of Spike, or anyone for that matter, makes me want to capslock the Hell out of you!

What would you like her to have done to be worthy of a love she never even wanted when it was presented to her?

And furthermore!

Appreciative, then, if the word "worthy" for some reason sticks in your craw. Appreciative for the things that a man who everyone sees as a soulless, uncaring, monster, who should have had no feelings of honor or loyalty, displayed for her, her mother, and her sister. Appreciative of his attempts to protect and give some degree of security, comfort, and a few moments of forgetfulness and distraction from the day to day grind of having to work at a menial job in order to support two adult witches and one teenaged sister, none of whom seemed to even notice the strain that Buffy was under in Season 6, or, as far as was shown, share in the household expenses.

I know that there are those who believe that love cannot be earned, that it is some mysterious thing that just happens, unbidden, manifesting itself out of thin air, with no reason or rhyme, but I don't, and I would be willing to bet that I'm not the only one here who feels that way. Love CAN be earned, and even if that love isn't returned in kind, it should at least be acknowledged and appreciated, if only by replying, "No, you don't. But thanks for saying it."

If Buffy meant what she said, and we have Joss' assurance that she did, then I would have to say that that is proof that love CAN be earned. A Slayer can come to love, whether as simply a close and loyal friend (yeah, right), or as someone who she would be happy spending at least a significant portion of her remaining life with, a man who began their acquaintance by almost killing her.

Now, all she has to do is convince Spike that she actually did mean what she said, and determine whether or not she wants to now try and become worthy of HIS love.

 

[Miss Kitty]

The only couple I always loved is Spuffy, and I never changed my mind about them in almost ten years 🙂 My passion is too strong. I think it's difficult to change your mind about this kind of things. Personnaly, I can't. I believe in their story, in their love and in their potential, and their journey convinced me that they belong together. I can't skip how I felt about them. They're my OTP and I'm sure they always will be. I feel very protective of them and their characters.

I also love Cangel, they're my second favorite couple, but it's more recent (I discovered ATS 4 years ago) and I don't know how it will evolve in few years and after my current rewatch of the show. I love them, but it doesn't equal my passion for Spuffy, so maybe my love for them will become less strong (or not 🙂 ).

And I don't have several ships, just some couples I love more or less, but generally, they all have something in common (the way their feelings are developped for example) and I rarely change my mind about the couples I like.

 

[Marisa]

Here are the facts:

1. Spike loved Buffy with everything he had.

2. Buffy was a total bitch about it.

3. Buffy needed Spike and used the hell out of him.

4. Spike still loved Buffy with everything he had.

5. Spike, as a soulless being, had no idea how to love a soulful being like Buffy.

6. Spike wanted to be what she deserved/needed.

7. SPIKE FIGHTS FOR AND WINS BACK HIS SOUL (and is the ONLY Buffyverse vampire to do that)

8. Buffy still isn't as nice and loving as I want her to be.


Um... yeah, she should have worked harder to be worthy of this kind of love. Oh not to mention I forgot this part...

Where Buffy acts like there's something wrong with Spike because he loves her and LEGIT makes him feel bad about himself because he loves her.

I agree with these. Over time I have come to love Spuffy less because I dislike Buffy. I love Spike and I still love their relationship but her being a bitch all the time was annoying especially when I think about it. She was far from perfect and sometimes she needed to remember that. It seems like Spike gets a lot of flack but to me he was the better half of that relationship.

@ Miss Kitty I watched Angel second so I didn't know about Cangel either so I am with you on discovering them later, but once I did all bets were off. I think I love them best because they are two of my favorite characters plus I just love their relationship.

 

[Scarlett Blade]

I agree with these. Over time I have come to love Spuffy less because I dislike Buffy. I love Spike and I still love their relationship but her being a bitch all the time was annoying especially when I think about it. She was far from perfect and sometimes she needed to remember that. It seems like Spike gets a lot of flack but to me he was the better half of that relationship.

This is interesting, cause it's the total opposite with me: I've grown to like Spuffy less and less as I realize that most of the time the relationship wasn't benefiting Buffy at all. Yeah sure, she wasn't the nicest to Spike in season 6, but lets remember that he was a souless being at the time. Buffy's my girl, and if she's not happy, than I'll out-rule the ship. That's why I like season 7 spuffy interaction because Buffy is finally beginning to feel comfortable in the relationship, and it's really benefiting her. I also like the beginning of season 2 Bangel relationship because she's happy with Angel. I don't really ship Buffy with anyone because of the fact that all her relationships are mostly difficult for her. I want her to have the best, and I've come to realize that Spike isn't necessarily the best person for her. Even though I like the ship Spuffy because it's interesting, and because i'm not really so into that "forever" love stuff, I might, when it comes down to it, want her to choose Angel because she loves him so much and he makes her very happy. And to think my original username on the boards was spuffy4ever! LOL I guess I really do see things differently now.