Jumping Ship

[brinkster130]

I, like many others, have never and probably never will abandon my ships. I'm not sure why but I feel a need to be loyal to them and stick with them no matter what happens to them. Although I must admit, I do enjoy watching other ships...I guess I'm a sucker for couples.

As far as BTVS goes, my numero uno is Bangel. Has been since the beginning and always will be. As far as I'm concerned Buffy and Angel will always belong to one another.

That being said, I do really enjoy Briley and have been known to swim over to that ship and show some love. Part of the reason I am so comfortable showing my Briley love is because I know deep down that they are not a real threat to my beloved Bangel. Plus, my boy Riley gets hated on all the time...someone around here needs to show him some love 😉

I am also a very big Woz fan, mostly because of Oz, and my love (and loyalty to) of Oz has always kept me from getting to attached to Tillow.

In short, I am loyal to my ships and and sticking with them even if they do end up going down.

 

[Marisa]

This is interesting, cause it's the total opposite with me: I've grown to like Spuffy less and less as I realize that most of the time the relationship wasn't benefiting Buffy at all. Yeah sure, she wasn't the nicest to Spike in season 6, but lets remember that he was a souless being at the time. Buffy's my girl, and if she's not happy, than I'll out-rule the ship. That's why I like season 7 spuffy interaction because Buffy is finally beginning to feel comfortable in the relationship, and it's really benefiting her. I also like the beginning of season 2 Bangel relationship because she's happy with Angel. I don't really ship Buffy with anyone because of the fact that all her relationships are mostly difficult for her. I want her to have the best, and I've come to realize that Spike isn't necessarily the best person for her. Even though I like the ship Spuffy because it's interesting, and because i'm not really so into that "forever" love stuff, I might, when it comes down to it, want her to choose Angel because she loves him so much and he makes her very happy. And to think my original username on the boards was spuffy4ever! LOL I guess I really do see things differently now.

Well I don't really love Buffy and sometimes I think she makes herself unhappy. She seems like the type of person that no matter how good she has it she will find something bad about it and ruin it. Example Riley he was not perfect but he was probably going to be the healthiest and most normal thing she could have. She complained about wanting normal when she gets it she complains about it and then when it is gone realized she wants it. Do you get what I mean?
I understand Spike was soulless but she KNEW that when she went willing and decided to START the unhealthy relationship. I can't put the blame on Spike at all for that one because she knew he wanted her and she used that to ease her own pain. I understand where she was coming though just doesn't make it right.
I think both Angel and Spike are to good for her so I don't want her to mess any of them up anymore. I mean I love Spuffy and if she can be like she was toward season seven than I am good with that it is just to me she never really treated Spike with enough respect at times. I do like their relationship in season seven best though they have some really amazing moments.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I've never shipped any one ship so hard that I swore I'd never stop... When I was younger, and the show was on first-run, I swore I'd never love anyone with Buffy more than Angel. However, now that I'm older and wiser, I can appreciate the difference in the relationships that Buffy had with Angel, Spike, and Riley. I can see good and bad things in all the "major" ships on the show, so I don't have any hardcore ships anymore like I used to.

 

[Miss Kitty]

For reacting to what you're saying, personnaly, I consider that both Buffy and Spike have done mistakes in their relationship (in season 6 mainly) but I understand why they did these, given their emotional issues at these times (Buffy was totally lost in her life, depressive, and Spike was lost between two worlds, rejected in both sides, and his character was really complex concerning this duality good/bad). That's a part of why I love them. They weren't perfect, they have done mistakes, but it was respectful of who they were, respectful of their respectives issues, and I love them even more for that, because they didn't try to make it easy and they didn't hide each other's bad sides. It remained emotionaly realistic. In season 5, I understand why Buffy was rejecting him, as much as I understand why she opened a door to him after Intervention, by trusting him and allowing him to enter in her house and in her life again. The beggining of season 6 was also really tender. It's only when they began to sleep together that things turn wrong because of their respective issues. And I'm admirative of them because they have found a way to overcome their mistakes. It didn't kill their relationship, it made them stronger. I don't hate Spike and I don't hate Buffy, I appreciate their relationship for what it was, complex on both sides, but finally beautiful and touching. They know they have done mistakes ; they know they have been bad to each other during a time. They probably know that they will do other mistakes. But they're accepting this, because they see each other like they are. There's no room for disappointment or desillusion (I'm not giving the same credit to Bangel for example), because they know who is in front of them, in the good as in the bad. It makes their love for each other more real to me. It's not only few words, it has a real meaning when we see their past story.
Spike have done a lot of things for her, and Buffy have done a lot of things for him. Buffy has shown through her actions her love for him, in the way of the mature-Buffy would have done it, and it was respectful of a continuity in her feelings and of her relationship with him. Their ability to trust each other and keeping faith in each other in despite of the worst they have seen of each other was wonderful in regard of their story, because I'm not sure that everyone is able to pretend to the same qualities. And honestly, I think that their relationship has proven more than once how much they were able to do this right. Their relationship was the place where they could be themselves, and that's more fulfilling and healthy in my opinion. That's a part of why I believe in them as a couple 🙂 They don't have to pretend, they just have to be.

Sorry for the rant 😱 , I know this is not the good topic, but I just wanted to react to the whole "I hate Buffy's attitudes" or "I hate Spike's attitudes" in regard of the Spuffy relationship, by sharing my way of seeing it.

 

[white avenger]

Kean agrees: I don't trust "love" that must be earned or lobbied for. To me that isn't love at all. At least not a love shared equally by both parties.

NO love is EVER shared equally by two people. One will always love more than the other. Love that is worked for, that is earned through determination, faith, and perseverance, is always more precious than any love that is simply the result of following the path of least resistance, and anyone who waits around for that magical bolt of lightning to strike, revealing their One True Love, is going to most likely end up alone.

 

[Kean]

Kean agrees: I don't trust "love" that must be earned or lobbied for. To me that isn't love at all. At least not a love shared equally by both parties.

NO love is EVER shared equally by two people. One will always love more than the other. Love that is worked for, that is earned through determination, faith, and perseverance, is always more precious than any love that is simply the result of following the path of least resistance, and anyone who waits around for that magical bolt of lightning to strike, revealing their One True Love, is going to most likely end up alone.

You can't possibly know that. You may believe it to be true, and it may be what you have experienced, but I'm still steadfast in belief that it does exist. Even if it doesn't exist for me, I believe it is real. I'm cynical enough about life, I refuse to allow that cynicism to creep into what I think about love.

I suppose you could call it my endeavour of Faith.

And if I end up alone, it will be because I didn't lose that Faith and settle for something that is less than I believe in. That's as fine a reason as any to be alone. But I assure you, I won't be lonely and I won't regret it.

 

[white avenger]

You can't possibly know that. You may believe it to be true, and it may be what you have experienced, but I'm still steadfast in belief that it does exist. Even if it doesn't exist for me, I believe it is real. I'm cynical enough about life, I refuse to allow that cynicism to creep into what I think about love.

I suppose you could call it my endeavor of Faith.

And if I end up alone, it will be because I didn't lose that Faith and settle for something that is less than I believe in. That's as fine a reason as any to be alone. But I assure you, I won't be lonely and I won't regret it.

If trust can be earned, if redemption can be a goal worked toward, then it is possible, even likely, that a person, determined, steadfast, and totally focused on their goal, CAN earn the right to be loved. That is MY endeavor of faith. If I had just sat back and waited for the love of my life to come knocking on my door, I would be alone today. I won't say that anyone unwilling to work for and earn the love of another is doomed to remain forever alone, but the odds sure seem to point in that direction.

 

[caritas08]

I agree with both of you in a way and think this a really interesting discussion. Can I just point out that the difference may be between how males and females pursue love? It seems like men who pursue a woman who is initially uninterested have a much better chance of "earning" her love and respect than a woman who pursues a man who is initially uninterested. I know if I loved a man who showed as much disinterest in me as Buffy shows to Spike, I would give up pretty quickly no matter how much I loved him.

I would also like to point out that I'm a fan of most of the ships on the show since I believe that most people have more than one true love in life. The only relationships I don't care for are Willow/Kennedy cuz I felt they had no chemistry and their attraction seems purely physical to me, and Buffy/Riley cuz he seems to feel dissatisfied with taking back seat to the woman and letting her outshine him even though she is clearly a superior warrior than him (Angel, Spike, Xander and Giles never had that problem). I might add that Riley tried but he just wasn't able to be Buffy's sidekick which is what she needed.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I don't want to say too much here, because a lot of my beliefs have been articulated really nicely by some of my fellow Spuffies.

To begin with, I was a Bangel, because (as others have said), that's all there was and it was so easy to get wrapped up in their passionate story. As a Bangel my perception of love at its finest was consistent with their relationship; all passion, drama, and tears with very little functionality.
But watching Spike's story evolve; watching as he became more and more of a person and as he began to develop real feelings for a human being, as he tried to make himself worthy of her over and over again despite little positive encouragement--that was incredible to watch. As Zob stated, it was difficult to wrap my head around them as a couple right away; as soon as I started to believe that Spike was worthy of the love of an ensouled, human being, (let alone a champion like Buffy)--I became frustrated that Buffy couldn't acknowledge all that he did for her--or even how he tried. I saw the struggle from his perspective and resented Buffy who had always been my #1 fave. But over time, and after watching the evolution of the relationship as it played out onscreen, it all made sense. It clicked for me. When Buffy was ready to accept Spike into her life as an equal after he'd earned his soul back, I was ready to accept them as a couple. As soon as I'd done my first re-watch, however, I was ready to accept them as a couple as early as season 5. Whoever could inspire a soulless vampire to travel down the path to redemption, as far as I'm concerned, is probably an excellent partner for him. It works in theory, and in my opinion, it works very nicely on the show.

 

[Kean]

If trust can be earned, if redemption can be a goal worked toward, then it is possible, even likely, that a person, determined, steadfast, and totally focused on their goal, CAN earn the right to be loved. That is MY endeavor of faith. If I had just sat back and waited for the love of my life to come knocking on my door, I would be alone today. I won't say that anyone unwilling to work for and earn the love of another is doomed to remain forever alone, but the odds sure seem to point in that direction.

But there is no right to love. Every single person, righteous or wicked, has the chance of love. But not the right. I cannot contact my local politician and demand my Love Right exacted. Even with Spike and Buffy, he fell for her without reason. And whether Buffy meant what she said or not in Chosen, she only said it after Spike had stopped actively campaigning for her love.

And as for being alone? We stand here arguing two opposing views on the path love takes. And yet, our respective ships, who we believe are representations of those kinds of love, continue to walk their paths of love alone. Neither approach has guaranteed them someone to walk with them.

 

[kittenpoker]

What an interesting discussion!

Can I just point out that the difference may be between how males and females pursue love? It seems like men who pursue a woman who is initially uninterested have a much better chance of "earning" her love and respect than a woman who pursues a man who is initially uninterested.

this is a very interesting point! I wonder what it is that accounts for this difference...I'll need to give this more thought.

To begin with, I was a Bangel, because (as others have said), that's all there was and it was so easy to get wrapped up in their passionate story. As a Bangel my perception of love at its finest was consistent with their relationship; all passion, drama, and tears with very little functionality.

Yes, exactly.

But watching Spike's story evolve; watching as he became more and more of a person and as he began to develop real feelings for a human being, as he tried to make himself worthy of her over and over again despite little positive encouragement--that was incredible to watch.

Yes! I think the key difference may be functionality... remember in something blue how buffy wanted their wedding song to be "the wind beneath my wings"... spike really does make buffy better and vice versa, I think.

 

[KellGreen]

Even with Spike and Buffy, he fell for her without reason. And whether Buffy meant what she said or not in Chosen, she only said it after Spike had stopped actively campaigning for her love..

Thank you for the revelation you just gave me! I realized that is how i love. Like Spike's speach to Buffy in S7 (end of days, i think?), love is not about what someone has done, but about who they are. It's not based on a verb, but a noun. for me, anyway. i feel near to bursting when i am near someone i truly love, regardless of anything. when i love, i feel love FOR that person, and it doesn't require reciprocation to thrive. it just is. but, i must acknowledge with this rambling, that i'm really weird in general, so...

 

[kndizzle]

But there is no right to love. Every single person, righteous or wicked, has the chance of love. But not the right. I cannot contact my local politician and demand my Love Right exacted. Even with Spike and Buffy, he fell for her without reason. And whether Buffy meant what she said or not in Chosen, she only said it after Spike had stopped actively campaigning for her love.

Well this has morphed into something totally different than I envisioned! Please believe that I had no intention of making this a Bangel vs. Spuffy discussion, because I just don't trust myself to stop talking about that if I start. And now I might go do just that in another forum. 😉

So here we are, why we love something vs. the functionality of love itself. In my singular experience with love for another person I would have to say that the idea of his earning my love was impossible because it wasn't neccesary - I loved him already. Not because of what he had done but because I loved him, beyond rhyme or reason or sense. This isn't to say that attempting to earn my love would go unnoticed, but it was, however, unneccesary. Not because of what he did, or earned on my behalf. Not because of the things he did in the name of winning my love.

Love is a loaded word: you simulatenously hand someone your trust, expectations, and future along with your love, whether it is reciprocated or not. Trust is easily lost, but it is not the case with love. It's an involuntary action, and because of it so is the idea of earning love. Love is earned when the love is felt within us, and no number or amount of events can trigger it. Because love is so substantial in and of itself, to me it is a term that qualifies multiple powerful emotions. You can be trustworthy, but this does not guarantee you someone's trust; you can be loveable, but it does not guarantee love. Love is not a right because it isn't something we can control. And thus, so is earning love. It is earned when our heart tells us it is, no matter the events leading up to or against it.

 

[white avenger]

My sincere apologies for inadvertently hijacking your thread and dragging Miss K along in doing so. It's just been so long since we've had a good Spuffy/Bangel smack down that I got carried away before I realized what was happening.

I promise to behave properly from now on.

 

[white avenger]

Kean agrees: Pfft! You've been making that promise for nearly 4 years and you still haven't followed through

Miss K, I try, I sincerely try. And then, here you come, with all of your Bangel myths, innuendos, misconceptions, half truths, misdirections, and just plain out blasphemy, and SOMEBODY has to put you in your place. I may not wear an amulet, but I'm still the Spuffy champion around here, and Bangel will always be the Least Evil.

You see there, folks? I make a promise to behave, and the Bangel Brigade drags me into another ...

It ain't my fault. I've just fallen in with brigands, bandits, and rogues, and they lure me into their evil ways.

 

[kittenpoker]

Thank you for the revelation you just gave me! I realized that is how i love. Like Spike's speach to Buffy in S7 (end of days, i think?), love is not about what someone has done, but about who they are. It's not based on a verb, but a noun. for me, anyway. i feel near to bursting when i am near someone i truly love, regardless of anything. when i love, i feel love FOR that person, and it doesn't require reciprocation to thrive. it just is. but, i must acknowledge with this rambling, that i'm really weird in general, so...

I think this is beautiful!

 

[StarSlayer]

"Jumping" into the discussion with my shipping story. 🙂

I never watched BtVS when it originally aired. The first time I ever watched it was last summer and I started at the very beginning with the very first episode. I knew Buffy had relationships with both Angel and Spike, but I was not set on any particular ship. In fact, the whole "shipping" concept was foreign to me. I just always like couples based on what I see.

With that said, I did at one point "ship" Bangel, before I ever liked Spuffy. As Buffy's romantic interest, Angel was the perfect choice (at first). A vampire with a soul. A "good guy" vampire. He portrayed classic vampire traits (watching the woman he loved when she slept, fangs, and drank blood), but he was also helping a slayer, which made him a unique character. I love how Bangel's story develops in seasons 1 and 2. I still do.

BUT, season 3 changed my whole opinion about them. See, when I root for couples, I root for ones that I think are the best match. The ones that compliment each other perfectly by bringing out the best in each other. Bangel went downhill for me as I watched season 3. They didn't become stronger when they were together, but weaker IMO. For me, that's not true love. Sure, one can maybe feel weak when they are around the person they love. But at the end of the day, for real, true love to survive, it has to be strong. I won't go into too much more detail about why I think this based on what I saw because this post would be far too long. But, basically, I'm not a Bangel shipper anymore. I jumped the Bangel ship, although I still like them based on seasons 1 and 2 only. Yet, I didn't automatically ship Spuffy right then and there.

As I progressed through the series, I started liking the idea of Buffy and Spike together. "Something Blue," FFL, "Crush," and "Intervention" were key episodes that made me want them to get together. At that point, Spuffy reminded me of classic gothic romances, really more than Bangel ever did, which I absolutely love. Spuffy was becoming more interesting for me. So, I was packing my suitcase and getting onboard with the Spuffy ship. But, I wasn't completely a Spuffy shipper until "After Life" Oh...my...God. This episode sealed the deal for me. 🙂 So, based on this episode and previous ones, I fell so in love with Spuffy, more than I ever did with Bangel. And I began rooting for them. But, damn. Things got ugly in their relationship in s6, despite some wonderful moments in the beginning of the season. And after "Seeing Red," I honestly did not know if I would continue to ship Spuffy. At that point, they weren't bringing out the best in each other. They reached an extreme low point. Could their relationship become stronger (even better) from what happened in s6?

To my surprise and delight, it did as I watched season 7. Spuffy's relationship became something so beautiful, strong, real, and full of love that I'll never abandon this ship, even if they never get their happily ever after. Because for me, Spuffy's story as presented through the TV series (with all its complexity) is enough. 🙂 Of course I would LOVE it if Buffy ends up with Spike, but I already know that they are the perfect and best match. For me, Buffy will never find anyone as close to a soulmate as she did in Spike, not even in Angel (although I honestly do think both can be seen as her soulmates). Both Buffy and Spike unexpectedly found something in the other, and that's love. 🙂 I've never loved a couple more than I did with Buffy and Spike, and I've seen many TV shows and movies. So, while I do "ship" other couples in the Buffyverse and other shows (for instance, Cangel, Tillow, Rachel/Finn in "Glee," Eric/Sookie in "True Blood," Monica/Chandler in "Friends," Sawyer/Juliet in "Lost," Barney/Robin in HIMYM, to name a few), I can safely say that Spuffy is my OTP when it comes to shipping in general. 😀

 

[white avenger]

On the "Good Ship Spuffy" we never have lifeboat drills, because our ship is NEVER gonna sink.

 

[Kean]

On the "Good Ship Spuffy" we never have lifeboat drills, because our ship is NEVER gonna sink.

That's what they said about the Titantic...

 

[StarSlayer]

That's what they said about the Titantic...

Rose: "I love you, Jack."
Jack: "Don't you do that."

Rose never loved Jack!!! 😉 😛

Didn't mean to intrude, but I couldn't resist. 🙂