just a mix of random thoughts

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rere

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im just sitting here thinkin about buffy and angel and i am so confused. a lot of things has started to make me wonder about how the series finale is going to end, ok here goes:

1: buffy says in "HIM" (the beginning of season 7) to dawn that she doesnt love spike she just feels for him but in the episode "FIRST DATE" she says to willow "why does everyone in this house think im STILL IN LOVE WITH SPIKE" can someone explain that to me
2: i know that they have said that buffy and angel are two different universes but why the hell was willow just not going to get FAITH a week later than she had already been to LA.
3: Does buffy like Wood or not, i know in FIRST DATE she said "yeah i think i do like him" and at the end when spike asked her about "the princpal" she got quiet and looked away but they never said anything about it anymore.
4: what the hell kind of demon was Ashanti in FIRST DATE
5:next weeks episode of Angel-freaky or what. I know i have to wait til next to find out whats happening but Angel is getting really weird and confusing lately.
6:if spike has now defeated his trigger will the first be able to still control him and how did he get the trigger in the first place.
7: when the BRINGERS carved the symbols in spike's chest when they opened the seal of DANZAR did that help open the seal but why didn't andrew do that to jonathan when he tried to sacrifice him
8: i read somewhere that buffy and angel are supposed to kiss in the last episode of buffy but i hope that doesn't happen cause buffy and spike are supposed to be together. she and spike have more passion than her and angel could have ever had or would've had or been able to have.
9: with the whole spike and wood thing i think that spike was in the right-wood tried to kill him for god's sake even though he knew that he was good. wood even said it himself "i dont want to hurt you spike, i want the demon that killed my mother" its been at least 30 years comeon get over it. his mother did choose the fight over him so he can't really be mad at spike. its not like she said i dont wanna fight she chose her job over her family. and people say she had no choice but she did, didn't buffy choose not to work for the council anymore and when she lost her powers she chose to fight anyway because she could not fight knowing what goes bump in the night.
10: In the episode DOPPLEGANGLAND when they capture willow's vampire self buffy says that a vampire is nothing like the person it was but angel says actually but never finishes it i want to know what the hell he was going to say.
11:BUFFY AND SPIKE FOREVER= they should play Luther Vandross Here and Now in the last episode of buffy for her and spike it would be so romantic
 
Originally posted by rere
10: In the episode DOPPLEGANGLAND when they capture willow's vampire self buffy says that a vampire is nothing like the person it was but angel says actually but never finishes it i want to know what the hell he was going to say.
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I think I can answer this one...I think he was going to say that they're are actually pretty similar, but when Buffy gave him THAT look, he realized that he was gonna creep Willow out so he changed his mind.
 
1. That can easily be explained by the rest of the crew thinking that Buffy did love Spike. It should also be noted that Buffy is sort of confused about her feelings for him, she certainly does have some feelings for him, she's just not sure what exactly they are.

2. Buffy and Angel are two different shows, not universes. Both Buffy and Angel take place in Joss' 'Buffverse'. As far as the timing of her departure for L.A. and her arrival there, the shows are on different networks so you can't exactly expect them to mesh perfectly in that respect. All things concidered, I think kudos should be given to the nets for working together so well (they are each others competition afterall).

3. She did find him attractive, she admitted as much. They were, however, just getting to know each other. After Wood's attempt on Spike I'd say that there isn't much chance of something happening there anymore.

4. Don't think to was actually said. Apparently some kind of feline shape-changer... like a werewolf but not.

5. Personally I don't really find it confusing. Liked the last episode and I think that Angel has been fairly good this season.

6. The trigger was how Spike was being controlled, so it shouldn't be able to use Spike anymore (note I said SHOULDN'T and not CAN'T). Triggers, as explained by Xander, are put into place via brainwashing.

7. Part of it could be that there were runes on the dagger that Andrew used. Without that dagger they could have had to resort to carving the symbols into the victim. More likely, those runes were unnessisarily carved into Spike (they were demons who were doing it, and demons in the 'Buffyverse' tend to favor arcane rituals... even when they serve no real purpose. The First may have liked Andrew to do the same, but Andrew didn't have Johnathan tied up at the time and wouldn't have had the stomach for it anyway).

8. First off, information like that should be confined to the spoiler board (guesses are okay, but if you read it somewhere that's a spoiler). Let's also keep in mind that MANY would disagree with you. Angel and Buffy are often concidered to be each others true love. The two possessed enough passion between them to destroy Angel's soul. Buffy and Spike mostly just had a lot of sex.

9. Let's keep in mind that Spike is the equivalent of a serial killer who's stopped killing (he hasn't even really reformed, he shows no real remorse or attempt to atone for what he's done). I think you need to watch saying things like, "Spike is 'Good'. We know he's not Evil with a captial 'E', we don't know if he's 'good'... that remains to be seen. Spike still has the monster that killed Woods mother inside him, that monster still effects Spike as a person (watch the Angel episode 'Orpheus'), Spike still has the memories of killing Wood's mother and still has the face of the person who did it and the hands that actually broke her neck. Was Wood right to try and kill Spike? With the trigger in place and everyone being unwilling to keep him chained up, it's debateable. Can you blame Wood? Not really. Should Spike be threatening the guys life after he's already responsible for destroying it about 30 years ago? Probably not.

10. The personality of a vampire is based HEAVILY off of what the person was like as a human. Vamp Willow just found out sooner that she likes girls.

11. Luther Vandross? Um... no. As far as Buffy and Spike, I think you'll be at least partially disappointed. Let's also keep in mind that their realtionship was never really a 'romantic' one. They had a lot of sex and Spike tried to rape her.
 
First off, information like that should be confined to the spoiler board (guesses are okay, but if you read it somewhere that's a spoiler). Let's also keep in mind that MANY would disagree with you. Angel and Buffy are often concidered to be each others true love. The two possessed enough passion between them to destroy Angel's soul. Buffy and Spike mostly just had a lot of sex.
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I first want to say, angel loves Cordy now. he moved on and he had repeat that he love Cordy in last week episode.😉
One of the things about growing up, is moving on. Buffy and Angel broke up because of his curse. nothing so far has change.


I think the love Buffy had for Angel is a romantic love. idealistic. she love him and therefore she blind to his faults. to her he doesn't have any. she also blinded to any problem they might have in the relationship. she really do not fit into his world, and he never really tried to fit into her.

spike love is real. they have real problem, each of them are aware of each other faults/ they can meet half way in each other world. she knows his friends and he knows hers . he eyes are open to the potential of there union, therefore it's open for discussion.

While Buffy keeps her eyes close to the fact that Angelus will always lie deep inside of Angel ,she in term cut herself off from the real him. therefore he can not be himself around Buffy.

Buffy looks at spike the demon, and the man she know all of him, therefore he Spike can be himself and Spike love Buffy the slayer and Buffy the girl therefore they can both be
comfort able with each other.

It more than just sex. lets look at some of the things that they did.


Buffy and Spike had been on a semi date- Life Serial"

Spike knows her mother, and is allowed to just drop by.

Spike knows all her friends and she knows his.

She trust Spike to babysit her little sister.

her friends includes him in speccial events, like birthday parties and wedding. (far and away, and hell bells)

she feels comfortable to drop by his place anytime, and him the same .

he remember her birthday.
When her friends can't find her, they know to look for her at his place (Xander in Gone)

she allowed to vent her anger with him and know he will forgive her (dead things)

he can hang out with her friends and they know how important he is to her (Xander let him live with him because it was important to Buffy)

She can tell him secrets that she can't tell anyone else.

she knows things about him, that he wouldn't dare want others to know.😱

he knows that she likes ice on her neck, she knows his favorite food.

Buffy knows all about his past girlfriends, she do not have to her about from others. Spike knows all about everyone she dated as well.

those are things real couple do, real issues they deal with. There will always be a place in Buffy heart for her first love. but she have to make a place for "real love". the good and the bad. Buffy never truly trusted Angel. she was so mad when she thought Angel was fooling around with Faith, even after he told her it was all a trick to get faith to reveal the mayor's plan. she prove she trusted Spike when she allowed him to take care of her mother and sister. and she trust his judement when she allowed Dawn to stay with Clem.
 
"I think the love Buffy had for Angel is a romantic love. idealistic. she love him and therefore she blind to his faults. to her he doesn't have any. she also blinded to any problem they might have in the relationship. she really do not fit into his world, and he never really tried to fit into her.

spike love is real. they have real problem, each of them are aware of each other faults/ they can meet half way in each other world. she knows his friends and he knows hers . he eyes are open to the potential of there union, therefore it's open for discussion."

-Spike's Princess




I think after season 2 that Buffy certainly realized Angel's faults. Buffy does however wear blinders when it comes to Spike (and he does the same with her). Let's remember that Buffy let Spike run around free while he had the trigger and was essentially a tool of The First. Buffy KNEW this, and still she let him run around because she thought he could be good, she 'felt' it. Now THAT is being willfully blind to someone's faults.

Also note that both Buffy and Spike have stated that she used him, and that she never really loved him. Let's also keep in mind that without a soul he was stalking her and tried to rape her. If you want to make the arguement that he is now a different person since he has a soul, fine. You then run into the problem that Buffy and Spike have only just really met, if he truely has become a different person, and the two haven't really any type of romantic relationship since his being 'ensouled'.

As far as fitting into her world, neither do. They're vampires. They are immortal and can't go out in the sun. The can't really fit into anyone's life. Angel realized this, because he truely loved her he left. Spike is an obsessed stalker-type though and has stuck around regardless.




"While Buffy keeps her eyes close to the fact that Angelus will always lie deep inside of Angel ,she in term cut herself off from the real him. therefore he can not be himself around Buffy.

Buffy looks at spike the demon, and the man she know all of him, therefore he Spike can be himself and Spike love Buffy the slayer and Buffy the girl therefore they can both be
comfort able with each other."

-Spike's Princess



Buffy does realize that Angelus is just below the surface of Angel, just as she realizes that is the case with Spike and William the Bloody as well. But Angel always was the 'real him'. He always acted liked himself around Buffy. Watch the show 'Angel', the guy he was around Buffy just happens to be the guy he actually is. You think he should act like Angelus while he has a soul? That just doesn't make any sense. She never failed to know the 'real him'. Sure she didn't know Angelus, but she'd never met him before. Unlike with Spike, Buffy didn't have the honor of kicking the butt off the demon inside of Angel off and on for about 3 years before meeting him with a soul. Buffy always knew the real him, though. We don't, however, see Spike introducing Buffy to his softer 'William the poet' side now do we? Spike is the one who isn't himself. He tries to be the 'Big Bad', as he so often calls himself. He keeps saying that Buffy likes her guys to be dark, to have a little demon in them, so he doesn't show her this side of him because he's afraid she won't like him if he does. Spike is the one who won't truely let Buffy know him.

As far as the whole Spike loving both Buffy the girl and Buffy the Slayer... you don't think Angel did aswell? If that's the case might I suggest you watch 'Helpless' from season three.




Note- all the following quotes come from Spike's Princess as well



"Buffy and Spike had been on a semi date- Life Serial" "

Um... watch the episode again. He takes her out under false pretenses and gets her drunk. It wasn't even a "semi"-date. We do, however, know that Buffy and Angel have been on a bunch of real dates.


"Spike knows her mother, and is allowed to just drop by.

Angel and Joyce were hit and miss as far as how well they got along. Even still, I don't think I'd use how well the potential in-laws like a new suitor as a way to gauge love.


"Spike knows all her friends and she knows his. "

Yeah, she knows some of his friends... and hates them (with the exception of Clem). He knows hers... and tolerates them. So? Angel knew all her friends as well. This has nothing to do with love. Xander knows all her friends, so does Willow. Heck, Wood knows her friends too.


"She trust Spike to babysit her little sister."

She trusted Angel to guard her friends. I'm sure she would have let him babysit as well, but Dawn wasn't around when Angel was there.


"her friends includes him in speccial events, like birthday parties and wedding. (far and away, and hell bells)"

Same with Angel.


"she feels comfortable to drop by his place anytime, and him the same ."

She and Angel used to drop by each other's places all the time.


"he remember her birthday."

So does Angel. I know he got a book of poetry one year.


"When her friends can't find her, they know to look for her at his place (Xander in Gone)"

Her friends often assumed that she was with Angel when they didn't know where she was.


"she allowed to vent her anger with him and know he will forgive her (dead things)"

Um... she was mostly ticked off by what she was letting him do to her. Also, if you're trying to make the argument that their relationship was never really about true love but was instead co-dependant, abusive, and dysfuctional, then congratulations.


"he can hang out with her friends and they know how important he is to her (Xander let him live with him because it was important to Buffy)"

I think it's safe to say that every Scooby knew how important Angel was to Buffy. It took the world almost ending for her to actually kill him. Also, I don't think Spike has ever really 'hung out' with the rest of the gang, unless Buffy was there too (not including patrols,and rooming with Xander... those things are actually hanging out.)


"She can tell him secrets that she can't tell anyone else."

She told Angel secrets too.


"he knows that she likes ice on her neck, she knows his favorite food."

So? Angel knew a whole bunch of stuff about her too, and she knew stuff about him.


"Buffy knows all about his past girlfriends, she do not have to her about from others. Spike knows all about everyone she dated as well."

Buffy knew about Darla. As far as past boyfriends of Buffy's, there really weren't any serious one before Angel. Also, knowing one's past is not necissarily a sign of true love.


"those are things real couple do, real issues they deal with. There will always be a place in Buffy heart for her first love. but she have to make a place for "real love". the good and the bad. Buffy never truly trusted Angel. she was so mad when she thought Angel was fooling around with Faith, even after he told her it was all a trick to get faith to reveal the mayor's plan. she prove she trusted Spike when she allowed him to take care of her mother and sister. and she trust his judement when she allowed Dawn to stay with Clem."

Some are indeed things which real couples do, and as I've pointed out they ALL also apply to Angel.

First love can be 'true' love. Many people have married their highschool sweethearts.

Trusting Angel 100% was difficult for her. This isn't surprising, she was much younger when they were dating and she was more insecure about herself. We also know that Buffy has not trusted Spike on several occations (don't ask for specifics, I don't really feel like doing the research at the moment). As far as trusting Spike with her mother and Dawn, she trusted Angel with her mother and the Scoobies (Dawn didn't exist yet, but it's safe to say that for the most part she trusted the hell out of Angel... and unlike with Spike, she had reason to trust him).

As far as Clem goes, sure she trusted Clem. Why wouldn't she? Clem isn't an evil type of demon, I don't recall Spike ever telling her this. Let's say he did though and she trusted his judgemnet. So? When was the last time Buffy Questioned Angel's judgement?






I'm going to take a guess here, tell me if I'm wrong, you started watching the series fairly late didn't you? It's kind of hard to imagine someone who's been watching from day one questioning the sencerity of Buffy's love for Angel. Does she love Spike? Maybe, personally I doubt it, but I admit she does have some feelings for him.

Personally I'm not a Buffy/Spike or Buffy/Angel 'shipper. I never really liked her with either one (on the bight side... at least they weren't Riley). During the first few seasons I was always hoping for Buffy and Xander to get together (though I didn't think it was really going to happen, I was still hoping). Even still I realize that she had more feelings for Angel than she does for Spike.

The fact is, Joss and company have stated on several occations that Buffy's true love has always been, and will always be, Angel. The only reason we don't see him much and he isn't mentioned more often is because BtVS switched to another network. Let's face it, though I do like the Spike character, he has essestially become a second rate substitute for Angel.
 
Hey Happy~~~~

having a little trouble letting go of the fact that Angel and Buffy are not connected anymore?

Spike's Princess was just merely pointing out the many instances of trust and a relationship between Buffy and Spike. So, you cannot argue that they do not have a relationship because they 'only' had sex in your point of view. Her viewpoints about the relaitonship they DID have refutes your negative counter-arguments.
 
Both relationships have they're positive and negative sides, but, though I do not "subscribe" to any particular "ship", and rather love all the couples on both shows, I will be the first to say that Buffy and Angel had a way healthier relationship than Buffy and Spike IMO. Sorry if people don't agree 🙁 Of course, on the other side, I think that Angel and Cordy had a healthier relationship than Buffy and Angel (before things went ka-plooey, of course)
 
Originally posted by SpikedBuffy
Hey Happy~~~~

having a little trouble letting go of the fact that Angel and Buffy are not connected anymore?

Spike's Princess was just merely pointing out the many instances of trust and a relationship between Buffy and Spike. So, you cannot argue that they do not have a relationship because they 'only' had sex in your point of view. Her viewpoints about the relaitonship they DID have refutes your negative counter-arguments.
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Actually I let go of it just fine (as far as the characters go, I rather wish the shows were still able to be more related). You'll notice that in my post I said that I never really liked Buffy with Angel. I don't like her Spike either, though.

I realize that there are feelings between Buffy and Spike, I'm just not sure it was ever really love, and I highly doubt it was 'true love'. As much as I would prefer not to admit it, since I disliked the relationship, Angel was Buffy's true love. The folks who make the show have stated as much.

Also, Spike's Princess was actually doing more than just pointing out some instances of trust between Buffy and Spike. She hinted that Buffy and Spike could have a future together (which, due to him being a vampire, is impossible, much as it was with Angel). She also suggested that the relationship between Buffy and Spike was more mature, more 'real' and more honest, than it was between Buffy and Angel (as I pointed out, that really doesn't seem to be the case, though that could just be my opinion). I fully admit that Buffy and Spike had a relationship, that fact is pretty obvious. I just don't believe it was a very healthy one and was not 'true love'.

As well, you may note that I didn't argue against most of her points. I simply pointed out that they also applied to Angel, and in some cases were not very good example of a way to gauge the love between two people.

In short, Spike's Princess bashed the relationship between Angel and Buffy in favor of the one between Buffy and Spike. I happen to agree that Buffy and Angel couldn't work out. The thing is, neither can Buffy and Spike. The guys are both immortal vampires with serious issues. They really can't have a healthy relationship with anyone. (It also doesn't help that the relationship between Buffy and Spike was more than a little abusive.)
 
well, I just took your negative comments as derogatory against the Spuffy relationship. I understood your comments to be in the positive light of supporting the all might powerful Bangel relationship (yes~note my sarcasm please)

Yet~~ I'm a firm believer in the fact that Buffy and Angel as we knew it, oh, what five years ago? is OVER! Their shows are not entwined they do not flow together. They might be soulmates as everyone claims, or each other's true love, but they obviously know that they can never be together ever again... cuz they have not tried a reconciliation (one that both parties remembers thank you). They have both moved on to new people creating new relationships, so I think that Buffy can in fact have SOME sort of relationship with Spike... please we don't even know how it's going to end anyway... so a lot can happen. But I do not think that there will be a complete Bangel "reunion".
 
Originally posted by rere

10: In the episode DOPPLEGANGLAND when they capture willow's vampire self buffy says that a vampire is nothing like the person it was but angel says actually but never finishes it i want to know what the hell he was going to say.
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I lost the URL, but I was once surfing a web page that detailed the nature of evil in the Buffyverse. Very fascinating page; a colabrative effort to detail the differences is morals and ethics as they apply to the Buffyverse, as opposed to our own world. Things in the Buffyverse tend to be (necessarily) somewhat more cut and dried, black and white, than our own.

Anyway (I tend to ramble, so I'll cut to the chase), there was a large section on the different faces of evil in BtVS. One of the facets of evil detailed was 'corruption of good' or somesuch, and a list of links to Vampiric Corruption of Character topics was provided.

The basic suggestion seemed to be that when a person becomes a vampire a demon takes up residence, but the new personality doesn't spontaneously create itself (as we well know). The new personality is definately tied into the nature of the person before he/she is 'turned'. So what changes? If memory serves me, it was suggested that all the personality traits that were previously considered human are 'twisted to evil'.

A quick case study of some of the contrasting before and after characters in BtVS and A.I reveals what is meant by this. Let's start with Angel. As Liam he rebelled strongly against authority, and felt stifled by his father and, on a greater scale, by the rules of scociety around him. As Angelus, this aspect takes on a new meaning. Angelus is obsessed with dominating and controlling others, and will deliberately offend senses of propriety, and lash out violently against authority. As Angel, he is very emotive, and seems to percieve the inner emotions of the people around him. As Angelus, he uses that awareness to get inside people's heads, find out their worst fears, and use those fears against them. Liam was very much about feelings of powerlessness against his life and scociety. Angelus is very much about power and control - over people, society, events.

Willow is an interesting case, because we have a stark contrast between Willow as an evil witch (Darth Rosenburg as some call her), and Willow as a vampire. The two evil aspects of her character are very different, which tells us alot about how the demon inhabitant (Vampirism) corrupts the previous personality. As a Vampire, her introvertedness becomes extroverted exhibition. Her inate intelligence becomes manipulative. Her innate sense of empathy becomes a perverted joy in causing pain and suffering. Contrast some of these traits with the attitudes she displays when she is simply evil. She doesn't care so much about pain and suffering (other than as revenge). Vampire Willow would torture someone she caught for the pleasure of it. Darth Rosenburg would simply kill them if they were in the way. Vamp Willow would take pleasure in manipulating people to her owen ends, wheras DarthRosenburg would simply use them to achieve her goals - pleasure would be a very small factor for her, if at all.

I'm really not doing the webpage I had read any justice by making a hack attempt at paraphrasing it, but hopefully someone here will have the URL. Anyway, I think you can see the gist of how a vampire's character is very much related to the original personality of a person.
 
That is very interesting, I would have liked to read that article.

I would pose this question: so is "evil" in the "Evil Willow" sense of the word more a part of the person's own character, while becoming a vampire in a sense creates evil within a person?

What I'm trying to say is, does becoming evil like Willow did in S6 mean that somewhere inside there was evil to begin with, while becoming a vampire does not require that?
 
Wow.... that was great information you provided Khaych.

I think when Willow turned into Darth Rosenberg, she did not draw on evil at first. She drew her power from extreme grief and sadness. But then, when she saw how powerful she was, she got a good taste and didn't want to stop.

But I don't know about that whole vampire thing.
 
Not to beat a dead or horse or anything, but some more informations has come about concerning the realtionships.


In "Dirty Girls" we see Buffy express jealousy over Faith when it comes to both Spike and Angel. Which would point to her having feelings for Angel and trusting neither Angel or Spike with Faith.
 
It does prove that. I've never denied that Buffy has feeling for Spike. I think that's pretty obvious. I think it's also obvious that she has feelings for Angel.

I just don't happen to think that Spike and Buffy had 'true love' (well, it might have been for Spike, but I just don't think Buffy felt that way).


P.S. (for the mods) How were those spoilers? The episode has aired already. There's even a thread devoted to it. My bad I guess, I just don't see how that can be a spoiler when the episode hass already been shown.
 
Happy, you posted that before the episode aired. It wasn't necessary for Jacklyn to mark what she said as a spoiler. I have removed them now that the episode has aired.
 
Buffy can't have a normal life, until she truly quit being a slayer. Will she love anyone enough to give it up is the big question?

Spike understand that. the mission is what matter first, in Buffy life. The first slayer told Buffy death was her gift". Buffy had died, and an new slayer was called. (Faith) Could she walk away? will she? she can go on to have a normal life, if she chose to. but will she?

She has never been a normal girl. normal girls do not have super hero strength. I think if somehow she was to give it all up, I would like to see her with .......Dare I say it...............Riley!
he was the most normal guy she ever dated.

unless, one of them "shanshu".


But considering Buffy had died, twice before , could she still have kids? and grow old?🙄
 
It seems like the original URL is down at the moment; hopefully not for good. I managed to dig it up on Google. This site is like a scholar's compendium to BtVS and Angel, linking to theories on dozens of other sites. Hope it comes back online soon.
www.atpobtvs.com


However, one of the more interesting articles on Vampiric corruption of traits is found here:
http://www.geocities.com/voxsententia/abovethelaw/pippin.html

I'm no expert in any sense, and was only able to regurgitate other people's ideas on the topic. The article I posted the URL to suggests that all traits can be corrupted, and gives some examples. The writer suggests that no personality trait is purely positive or negative, and can be either, which I tend to agree with.

I would tend to think that in Willow's case, she gave in to her desire for revenge, and later gave into her desire for power, as it became easier and easier (just as SpikedBuffy said previously). The Evil manifested seemed to revolve around those two things. A Vampire on the other hand, seems to turn all personality traits to evil purposes, or else actually reverses traits when they can't be twisted to evil. So I guess the primary difference between Evil Willow and Vamp Willow would be the focus. Evil Willow really was Willow, and her deviation from the Willowness we all know and love was centered around Power and Revenge, whereas Vamp Willow was a complete and thorough corruption of all of Willow's traits. I'd blabber on but Vox does it much better in that URL. 😉

Double Post (next time use the edit button!):

Hmm, didn't notice this before, but the Author of that article shows a remarkable amount of insite into Spike's character long before anything about Spike was known - considering the date of the page.

Not bad, his being able to reverse-engineer William's character using only his vampire-self as a guide.. 🙂 Having an extra 3 and 1/2 seasons under our belt, we can now safely confirm that William was, indeed, insecure. Hehe
 
First off.

1. Angel doesnt trully 'love' Cordy, he didnt loose his soul.
2. Angel LOVES Buffy decause he lost his soul in true love.
3. SPIKE AND BUFFY SUCK AS A COUPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. Angel and Buffy BELONG TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......
Like I belong with Connor LOL
and Spike belongs with Drusilla.
 
1. Angel doesnt trully 'love' Cordy, he didnt loose his soul.
2. Angel LOVES Buffy decause he lost his soul in true love.
3. SPIKE AND BUFFY SUCK AS A COUPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. Angel and Buffy BELONG TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......
Like I belong with Connor LOL
and Spike belongs with Drusilla.
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Where do you keep the arguments for your statements, and could we please have a look at them !?!?!
 
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