Just finished Chosen and something confuses me about the plan.

[whitewolf]

When Buffy and the Potentials are beneath the Seal she says they should be okay as long as Willow finishes the spell before the uber-vamps see them. Okay, question why didn't they wait until Willow finished the spell before going down there?

 

[Robb Stark]

When Buffy and the Potentials are beneath the Seal she says they should be okay as long as Willow finishes the spell before the uber-vamps see them. Okay, question why didn't they wait until Willow finished the spell before going down there?

Oh, yeah. Metaphorically, motivationally, "Chosen" is one of my all time favorite episodes (I love the Bangel scene too. That seals it for me 🙂). But from a strategic, tactical standpoint, huge, huge wrench. I've always thought of Buffy as a great leader, but as a general in "Chosen"? Awful. Just awful.

I mean, Angel and Spike pretty much solve the entire problem on their own. Think about it from a purely logical standpoint. If Buffy, Willow and everyone else besides Spike and Angel weren't even a part of that final battle, would it have even mattered? Probably not. Spike dusts all of the uber-vamps and triggers the destruction of the Hellmouth.

The spell that Willow used to transform all the Potentials into Slayers (which beyond the metaphor, I hated. We talked about this in a thread of its own, but seriously? Seven seasons of how hard being a Slayer is, how lonely and dangerous it is, and you force that on thousands upon thousands of other girls? Wow. Lame) really wasn't even needed (and really, if they were so sold on going into the Hellmouth, why couldn't they have waited until Willow finished her spell and granting them powers before heading in?).

Another thing. Stationing Xander, Dawn, Giles and the rest right above in the school? Totally not needed. For starters, the vampires weren't going anywhere in the middle of the day. Secondly, if Willow is that powerful, why wouldn't she destroy the school or shear the roof off so that as soon as the uber-vamps stormed up, they'd be dusted by the sun?

*Breath*. Okay, sorry for the rant. I really do love "Chosen", but my inner-Batman is just shaking his head.

 

[iShower4free]

In their defense, I don't think anyone knew what the medallion would do. Only was a weapon to help them that needed to be worn by a champion vampire with a soul.

 

[Robb Stark]

In their defense, I don't think anyone knew what the medallion would do. Only was a weapon to help them that needed to be worn by a champion vampire with a soul.

Actually, that makes a lot more sense, now that I think about it. It just always seemed a little odd that the second lead and the main character of another show were the ones to save the world in the end. I kind of wished they'd emphasized that a bit more, that they didn't know what the medallion would do (even though I do recall them mentioning it).

Giving it some thought, you know what would have been a cool idea for the medallion. Keep it the same, Angel comes back to Sunnydale and gives the medallion to Buffy. But instead of them just not knowing, how about it can either be used, depending on the wearer, for either great good or great evil, and that they just don't know? That way they can use it as a last resort instead of having the plot hole of not using it right at the beginning. Plus, it gives even bigger props to Spike that way, and him wearing the medallion is one of my all time favorite Spike moments.

 

[iShower4free]

Yeah, they definitely could have put a little more time into the medallion itself. And I agree completely about Spike's wearing the medallion. Him wearing the medallion was his moment to prove that he really was a champion and not only being that way for Buffy. That's one of the reasons I liked him on Angel a lot too, because everything he was doing was because he wanted to do the right thing.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think they were short on time, and needed to get in there before the enemy a) noticed Willow doing the spell and b)noticed that Buffy and the others were close enough for a suprise attack. I'm guessing the Chosen spell could also have given them away to soon. They would have been harder to beat if Buffy and the others had to fight their way in after they were discovered.

Also, I don't think Xander and the others would have agreed to staying behind. And the Bringers could probably stand sunlight, and for all they knew, they were somewhere else, so if Xander and the others hadn't been there, the bringers could have attacked Buffy and the others from behind.

And as we saw in Season 7, when Willow didn't try to draw in dark energies and use black magic, she seemed weaker. I'm guessing it was also a mental barrier she had a hard time breaking. And the fact that the First might have been able to enter her again.

I also agree with those that said the medallion was a suprise.

Oh, yeah. Metaphorically, motivationally, "Chosen" is one of my all time favorite episodes (I love the Bangel scene too. That seals it for me 🙂). But from a strategic, tactical standpoint, huge, huge wrench. I've always thought of Buffy as a great leader, but as a general in "Chosen"? Awful. Just awful.

I mean, Angel and Spike pretty much solve the entire problem on their own. Think about it from a purely logical standpoint. If Buffy, Willow and everyone else besides Spike and Angel weren't even a part of that final battle, would it have even mattered? Probably not. Spike dusts all of the uber-vamps and triggers the destruction of the Hellmouth.

The spell that Willow used to transform all the Potentials into Slayers (which beyond the metaphor, I hated. We talked about this in a thread of its own, but seriously? Seven seasons of how hard being a Slayer is, how lonely and dangerous it is, and you force that on thousands upon thousands of other girls? Wow. Lame) really wasn't even needed (and really, if they were so sold on going into the Hellmouth, why couldn't they have waited until Willow finished her spell and granting them powers before heading in?).

Another thing. Stationing Xander, Dawn, Giles and the rest right above in the school? Totally not needed. For starters, the vampires weren't going anywhere in the middle of the day. Secondly, if Willow is that powerful, why wouldn't she destroy the school or shear the roof off so that as soon as the uber-vamps stormed up, they'd be dusted by the sun?

*Breath*. Okay, sorry for the rant. I really do love "Chosen", but my inner-Batman is just shaking his head.

 

[white avenger]

Dramatically, "Chosen" ranks up there with some of the classic TV battles of all time. The tight little band of heroes, mostly scared s***less, but still making their stand for what is right, triumphing in the end due largely to the sacrifice of one Champion. Great stuff. You can tell where Joss got his inspiration for the big battle in "The Avengers." Great stuff.

Tactically, Buffy's so called "plan" was almost, but not quite, as suicidal as Angel's plan in his own finale a year later. The hellmouth was sealed, thereby more or less containing the First Evil's army of ubervamps, and its Bringers were without a leader. Buffy had time (okay, the season, as well as the series, was ending, so that's not really true, but I'm sure that everyone understands my meaning) to gather allies, stockpile weapons. and work out a proper plan of attack instead of leading a dozen frightened, inexperienced, poorly armed little girls into hell itself. What was the rush? A delay of only a couple of weeks would have made perfect sense, especially from the viewpoint of the girl who advised her troops to "Run away if the odds aren't in your favor. Seek the high ground. Make the fight your own." Faith, and, to a lesser extent, Spike, were the dive in, kicking and punching, and hope for the best, fighters. Buffy was the cautious one.

As has been pointed out, no one had any idea thet the amulet would have been the deciding factor in the battle, or even for sure whether or not Willow's spell would have worked properly. Quite clearly, though Buffy claimed to be not overly religious, she believed in miracles. BIG miracles. And she was willing to hang the fate of the world on the biggest one of the entire series.

 

[EVIL UU]

Okay, question why didn't they wait until Willow finished the spell before going down there?

Because season 7 Buffy is basically insane. Really, that's the only way to explain her decisions throughout the season. She's an insane power-abusing egomaniac.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

No one believing in my theory? Ok.

[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION], who do you say the bringers were leaderless? The First could be directing them just as good as Caleb. And did they really have time? For all they knew, the First would have made it's attack that very same day. Or in two weeks, there could be even more vamps. And then the uber vamps could have found their own higher ground, or simply sourrounded slayer c/o. Atleast in the cave, they had their backs semi clear.

 

[white avenger]

No one believing in my theory? Ok.

[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION], who do you say the bringers were leaderless? The First could be directing them just as good as Caleb. And did they really have time? For all they knew, the First would have made it's attack that very same day. Or in two weeks, there could be even more vamps. And then the uber vamps could have found their own higher ground, or simply surrounded slayer c/o. At least in the cave, they had their backs semi clear.

While nothing is specifically said confirming that the Bringers, without Caleb to lead them, were any less of a threat than they ever had been, the First Evil referred to him as "my good right arm," which led me to believe that Caleb, in organizing and directing them, turning what was essentially an eyeless mob into a cohesive, efficient strike force, something that almost always requires a certain amount of hands on direction. Since the First Evil wasn't capable of performing such a task for itself, it required someone to handle that duty, either Caleb or someone else like him.

That complies with simple logic and tradition throughout human history. An army might be in the service of, and performing their god's will (as in the Israelites when they moved into the Promised Land,) they still required basically an "on site" leader (Joshua in my example) to receive and interpret the specifics. Without that single leader, the army falls apart, which is just about exactly where the Bringers appeared to be after Buffy killed Caleb.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

While nothing is specifically said confirming that the Bringers, without Caleb to lead them, were any less of a threat than they ever had been, the First Evil referred to him as "my good right arm," which led me to believe that Caleb, in organizing and directing them, turning what was essentially an eyeless mob into a cohesive, efficient strike force, something that almost always requires a certain amount of hands on direction. Since the First Evil wasn't capable of performing such a task for itself, it required someone to handle that duty, either Caleb or someone else like him.

That complies with simple logic and tradition throughout human history. An army might be in the service of, and performing their god's will (as in the Israelites when they moved into the Promised Land,) they still required basically an "on site" leader (Joshua in my example) to receive and interpret the specifics. Without that single leader, the army falls apart, which is just about exactly where the Bringers appeared to be after Buffy killed Caleb.

The trouble with that comparison is that "God" in this case didn't need a prophet to be seen and heard, just one that could place bombs and cut up girls(and obviously other chores that animalistic monsters would have a problem performing).

So while The First lost a leader/handiman, the Bringers could still recieve direction from The First, making them a perhaps just as deadly threat as pre-Caleb's demise.

 

[YummySushiPJs]

Remember the bringers appeared in season 2 as well. Weren't they acting under direct orders from the first then? I don't remember there being a leader?

 

[YummySushiPJs]

^Oops my bad. Season 3 😀 Thanks Skytteflickan88.