Just finished reading Last Gleaming for the first time

[falsestardust]

Season 8 was buckwild. I don't think I've ever read anything so insane in my life, to be honest.

Why did half the issues consist of characters acting, from my viewpoint, completely and utterly out-of-character? Why did there need to be quite so much biphobia? (Seriously. That was a lot of biphobia. Surprised I made it through Wolves at the Gate.) Also, did we really need superpowered space sex??

Despite my grievances, which are multitudinous, the season overall was solidly fine. High points - the entirety of No Future For You, the very end of Last Gleaming where they have more normal lives, Satsu's existence, Spike coming back, Oz being happy and having a life (plus his son!! Kelden is very cute), time travel existing for some reason?, and Warren's skinless self being simultaneously extremely ridiculous and fairly scary. Not sure I would ever read anything outside of No Future For You ever again, but I'm motivated to keep reading - though admittedly mostly to see if the later comics are better. Really hope season 9 and beyond are not quite so off-the-rails!!

(side note, but I think it's funny that I figured out who Twilight was because of a panel in Wolves at the Gate where he pulls up his mask slightly to scratch his neck and my thought process immediately went, "I know that jawline, and I read that in his voice, and Twilight wears a long jacket... holy crap, is that who I think it is?")

 

[Kendar]

There's a lot to dislike in Season 8. And if it wasn't necessary to read it to understand some things in 9 and 10 I'd advise skipping it.

 

[Plasma]

(side note, but I think it's funny that I figured out who Twilight was because of a panel in Wolves at the Gate where he pulls up his mask slightly to scratch his neck and my thought process immediately went, "I know that jawline, and I read that in his voice, and Twilight wears a long jacket... holy crap, is that who I think it is?")

I’m fairly certain you’re supposed to know who Twilight is. Either that or they did an awful job of trying to keep it secret.

There’s specifically a joke about halfway through (during the Tibet arc) where someone mentions a seismic/magic spike and Twilight visibly gets concerned and says, “Spike??” Literally only one person would react like that and get fixated on the word, not counting Warren who is also on the scene and also reacts somewhat worried when he hears the word.

Why did half the issues consist of characters acting, from my viewpoint, completely and utterly out-of-character?

Completely agree on this by the way. The worst has got to be Xander making out with Dawn and starting a relationship with her. Whoever decided that Nicholas Brendon and Michelle Trachtenberg would be an ok thing to put together needed to re-evaluate themselves. They even joke how he’s “cradle robbing”.

Like…guys. She was a literal child when we left off in S7. Xander was about to be married in S6 before leaving his girlfriend (who he suspiciously doesn’t seem to miss, like, at all).

The whole season has weird relationship nonsense with Xander. There’s the Slayer he has a thing with until she is killed (really violently, might I add) by the Japanese vamps. There’s the weird and uncharacteristically “desperate” thing Buffy “has” for him. Then you have the weird relationship with a girl he treats like a little sister.

It’s like they couldn’t write convincing relationships without a male character, so bam you get Xander. Even Satsu’s relationship with Buffy feels extremely non-committal and like an afterthought by the writers compared to Buff’s feelings for Xander.

 

[Stake fodder]

I don't remember S8 that clearly now, but one thing was all the crazy creatures and locations they could have, now that there were no TV budgetary constraints. It's not the first time I've realized that budget limits can be a good thing for creative people!

 

[Btvs fan]

I’m fairly certain you’re supposed to know who Twilight is. Either that or they did an awful job of trying to keep it secret.

There’s specifically a joke about halfway through (during the Tibet arc) where someone mentions a seismic/magic spike and Twilight visibly gets concerned and says, “Spike??” Literally only one person would react like that and get fixated on the word, not counting Warren who is also on the scene and also reacts somewhat worried when he hears the word.



Completely agree on this by the way. The worst has got to be Xander making out with Dawn and starting a relationship with her. Whoever decided that Nicholas Brendon and Michelle Trachtenberg would be an ok thing to put together needed to re-evaluate themselves. They even joke how he’s “cradle robbing”.

Like…guys. She was a literal child when we left off in S7. Xander was about to be married in S6 before leaving his girlfriend (who he suspiciously doesn’t seem to miss, like, at all).

The whole season has weird relationship nonsense with Xander. There’s the Slayer he has a thing with until she is killed (really violently, might I add) by the Japanese vamps. There’s the weird and uncharacteristically “desperate” thing Buffy “has” for him. Then you have the weird relationship with a girl he treats like a little sister.

It’s like they couldn’t write convincing relationships without a male character, so bam you get Xander. Even Satsu’s relationship with Buffy feels extremely non-committal and like an afterthought by the writers compared to Buff’s feelings for Xander.

Both are pretty awful. Even more so with the MT talking about the rule on the Buffy set.

As for Buffy, Satsu was a student so it's inappropriate anyway. The child like panel drawings are creepy and the rest of the issue is spent having characters say Buffy isn't gay. Basically it was done for titillation and no other reason. If Joss had really wanted to he could've had Buffy sleep with Faith which would've worked for the characters but I guess not.

All in all the Buffy Comics seem like JW had done to much coke when writing them. They are completely out there.

It's funny but when they first came out, fans were saying how great it was. JW wouldn't be constrained by budgets/sets or actors or anything like that. He could do whatever he wanted . All that needed to be done was for it to be drawn. We'll he did and it was 😐

 

[Faded90]

Both are pretty awful. Even more so with the MT talking about the rule on the Buffy set.

As for Buffy, Satsu was a student so it's inappropriate anyway. The child like panel drawings are creepy and the rest of the issue is spent having characters say Buffy isn't gay. Basically it was done for titillation and no other reason. If Joss had really wanted to he could've had Buffy sleep with Faith which would've worked for the characters but I guess not.

All in all the Buffy Comics seem like JW had done to much coke when writing them. They are completely out there.

It's funny but when they first came out, fans were saying how great it was. JW wouldn't be constrained by budgets/sets or actors or anything like that. He could do whatever he wanted . All that needed to be done was for it to be drawn. We'll he did and it was 😐

I cannot put into words how much I hated everyone telling Buffy what her sexuality was and dismissing it entirely. Like imagine if the Willow/Tara storyline had been dealt with by everyone telling Willow she ‘clearly isn’t gay’ like… yikes! It felt more like the writers telling the audience ‘yeah it’s not happening. This was just a publicity stunt’

Also someone really needs to tell the Buffy writers that sexuality isn’t just straight/gay

 

[Btvs fan]

I cannot put into words how much I hated everyone telling Buffy what her sexuality was and dismissing it entirely. Like imagine if the Willow/Tara storyline had been dealt with by everyone telling Willow she ‘clearly isn’t gay’ like… yikes! It felt more like the writers telling the audience ‘yeah it’s not happening. This was just a publicity stunt’

Also someone really needs to tell the Buffy writers that sexuality isn’t just straight/gay

A few years ago Whedon did say Willow would be Bi Nowadays

Buffy The Vampire Slayer creator would make Willow bisexual in modern-day remake

There were concerns over bisexuality being thought of as a 'phase.'

metro.co.uk

 

[Cohen]

I’m NOT defending biphobia. But I also think it’s important to point out that the storyline occurred in 2008, well before gay became socially acceptable (i was DEATHLY afraid of anyone finding out my inner gayness at that time). I know that when it was written, people were upset with the way Buffy was portrayed. All of a sudden she’s gay? Especially after the way she reacted when Willow came out to her in season 4. It just didn’t fit her character. It would have made more sense for Dawn to have that storyline.

I liken the arc to experimenting in college, but I agree, in 2023 hindsight telling Buffy what her own sexuality is was… a choice that I wouldn’t make. But also I feel like it was reflective of the time. I remember people telling me I wasn’t gay when I came out in 2010. It just didn’t click with how they saw me. And then when they understood who I was didn’t change whether I liked boys or girls.. they understood that gay was just a facet of the whole me.

 

[famicommander]

I’m fairly certain you’re supposed to know who Twilight is. Either that or they did an awful job of trying to keep it secret.

There’s specifically a joke about halfway through (during the Tibet arc) where someone mentions a seismic/magic spike and Twilight visibly gets concerned and says, “Spike??” Literally only one person would react like that and get fixated on the word, not counting Warren who is also on the scene and also reacts somewhat worried when he hears the word.



Completely agree on this by the way. The worst has got to be Xander making out with Dawn and starting a relationship with her. Whoever decided that Nicholas Brendon and Michelle Trachtenberg would be an ok thing to put together needed to re-evaluate themselves. They even joke how he’s “cradle robbing”.

Like…guys. She was a literal child when we left off in S7. Xander was about to be married in S6 before leaving his girlfriend (who he suspiciously doesn’t seem to miss, like, at all).

The whole season has weird relationship nonsense with Xander. There’s the Slayer he has a thing with until she is killed (really violently, might I add) by the Japanese vamps. There’s the weird and uncharacteristically “desperate” thing Buffy “has” for him. Then you have the weird relationship with a girl he treats like a little sister.

It’s like they couldn’t write convincing relationships without a male character, so bam you get Xander. Even Satsu’s relationship with Buffy feels extremely non-committal and like an afterthought by the writers compared to Buff’s feelings for Xander.

I mean, inappropriate age gaps are sort of Joss Whedon's thing in Buffy.

Anya is over 1000 years old when she starts lusting after 17 year old Xander.
Buffy is the same age when Angel first claimed to be in love with her as Dawn was in season 7.
Nobody seems to have a problem with Xander and the mantis teacher until it becomes clear she wants to kill him.
Joyce and other grown women are all over Xander during his love spell gone awry.
Buffy fully mounts a student in season 7 (under the influence of magic again, but still gross)

 

[Cohen]

@famicommander its a gross joss head play… making his dreams into semi-reality. I have to overlook the age thing a lot in this show.

 

[Btvs fan]

I’m NOT defending biphobia. But I also think it’s important to point out that the storyline occurred in 2008, well before gay became socially acceptable (i was DEATHLY afraid of anyone finding out my inner gayness at that time). I know that when it was written, people were upset with the way Buffy was portrayed. All of a sudden she’s gay? Especially after the way she reacted when Willow came out to her in season 4. It just didn’t fit her character. It would have made more sense for Dawn to have that storyline.

I liken the arc to experimenting in college, but I agree, in 2023 hindsight telling Buffy what her own sexuality is was… a choice that I wouldn’t make. But also I feel like it was reflective of the time. I remember people telling me I wasn’t gay when I came out in 2010. It just didn’t click with how they saw me. And then when they understood who I was didn’t change whether I liked boys or girls.. they understood that gay was just a facet of the whole me.

You see in the UK, it was already quite common. There were many Gay and Bi characters on TV already. Buffy was very much behind the times even then from The UK perspective

Post automatically merged: Feb 25, 2023

I mean, inappropriate age gaps are sort of Joss Whedon's thing in Buffy.

Anya is over 1000 years old when she starts lusting after 17 year old Xander.
Buffy is the same age when Angel first claimed to be in love with her as Dawn was in season 7.
Nobody seems to have a problem with Xander and the mantis teacher until it becomes clear she wants to kill him.
Joyce and other grown women are all over Xander during his love spell gone awry.
Buffy fully mounts a student in season 7 (under the influence of magic again, but still gross)

Angel said he loved her from the day he first saw her which was in Becoming when she was 15 ! Thats pretty gross. Let's face it, the actress being older than the character stopped people from being grossed out. Now if SMG was the same age same way MT was then I think people would have way more issues

 

[Cohen]

You see in the UK, it was already quite common. There were many Gay and Bi characters on TV already. Buffy was very much behind the times even then from The UK perspective

Post automatically merged: Feb 25, 2023

That’s why I wanted to move to Britain since I was 15!!! I was like “They already KNOW across the pond!!” Lmao

 

[Angel6]

It’s wild to me how badly they have managed to translate the Buffyverse into comics. Honestly the original stuff that was coming out at the same time as the show are far superior to any of the sequel or Boom stuff.

 

[Plasma]

I know that when it was written, people were upset with the way Buffy was portrayed. All of a sudden she’s gay? Especially after the way she reacted when Willow came out to her in season 4. It just didn’t fit her character.

It’s not just that she’s suddenly gay. It’s the fact that they push the gay angle extremely hard and act like this is Buffy’s true love.

Have her be curious and give Satsu a shot because she wants to know what it’s like, but don’t say that suddenly Satsu is Buffy’s true love. That’s so tacky.

 

[Kendar]

It’s not just that she’s suddenly gay. It’s the fact that they push the gay angle extremely hard and act like this is Buffy’s true love.

Have her be curious and give Satsu a shot because she wants to know what it’s like, but don’t say that suddenly Satsu is Buffy’s true love. That’s so tacky.

Actually, they never say that Satsu is Buffy's true love or that Buffy feels true love for her. What they say is that Buffy is Satsu's true love. It is an interesting message: Person A can be Person B's true love, but not the reverse.

 

[Bishop Cruz]

Season 8 is definitely flawed, though it remains my favorite of the comic seasons, having the different writers and very distinct arcs helped in that regard, it was an interesting experiment, running a comic book as a TV show. At its best it worked wonderfully, at its worst if fell extremely flat. Add to that the the extremely poor handling of consequences for any of the characters in the seasons that follows and S8 looks worse in retrospect.

Still, the first 15 issues are straight fire. The Long Way Home is a great intro to the new status quo, No Future for You remains one of my favorite Buffyverse stories ever, and Wolves at the Gate was a rollicking good time. But after that the season lost focus. Twilight was horrible in conception and execution. It wasn't very clear WHO it was at the time, mainly because Angel had his own very good comic running simultaneously and all the editors were like "Nope, Twilight isn't Angel." when speaking to the fanbase. Hell, I think the crew over at IDW didn't even KNOW that Angel was twilight when they were writing after the fall.

The middle of the series falters with some arcs that go nowhere, especially bad was the entire five issue "arc" dedicated to different Slayers, and the last great story in S8 is Retreat.

But as I said, the series is both bloated, expanding from 24 issues to 40 over its run, and it shows in how much filler there is.