Let's talk about - Bangel

[JollyApe]

So let us talk about Bangel. Personally i'm not a big Bangel fan and I probably never will be, but their relaionship is an interesting one since during the entire BtVS and AtS era it was relevant.

Like it or dislike it? Why? What have you got to say about it?

As I see it, it's two different relationships. One from the BtVS point of view and another from Angels. Buffy was Angels true love and all of that and come what may he would never really get over her. In a way he was just like Lindsey was with Darla. Whereas Buffy, it was her first love and she will always remember him, but he was in no way her true love. I don't think Buffy ever found her true love during the show.

 

[Tainted Hope]

I don't believe it was Angel's true love- it was obvious he lost his curse (or was able to lose it) from Cordelia. It was like his puppy love- he only really grew up when he was on AtS, and so it wasn't a mature relationship- it was based soley on angst and lust. They weren't friends, couldn't really joke around, and so it didn't have anything for me.

It had a kinda cuteness to it, and a Romeo and Juliet esque plotline, but really? What did it have to offer? They would never get together, because of his vampire side, I don't believe she could ever truely accept him. And him, as a vampire- all his instincts must have been to kill her because of her Slayerness.

Buffy obviously found other loves, and they were all more healthy and all around better for her: Riley, Spike. So did Angel- it was a more mature, healthy relationship all around based on friendship and trust- Cordelia. None were too angsty, although I don't believe Joss Whedon could completely give up the angst factor, and neither were soley based on lust. Maybe at first, but eventually, they grew.

I think Bangel was/is stunted, and I don't really like the couple one bit. (anymore...)

 

[David's Girl]

I'm a big Bangel fan, but then again I think Angel & Cordy should have gotten together.

I think for the first 3 seasons they were perfect, young love and all that, but by the end of Angel I think he had moved on. Buffy had moved on by the middle of season 4, but I think it took Angel longer because he isn't as young as her, and he couldn't really trust himself to date anyone else.

I think I worded that completely wrong, but I know what I mean 😛

 

[SpikedBuffy]

Oh my gosh, Jolly Ape! What are you trying to do? Start WW3? 🙂

As many know, I am not a Bangel believer. Even without the relationship of Spuffy, I would still not be a Bangel believer.

I'll admit, for a while in season two, I did like their relationship. For two reasons: it was the only relationship on the show, and I was fifteen years old. Of course that sappy, heart-wrenching, end of the world relationship was going to appeal to me.

But as the seasons went on, I saw a change in Buffy, and I became to understand relationships better myself (because I was changing as a person to). I came to hate the sappy and dramatic childish issues in the Bangel relationship.

Buffy moved on in season four, developed a healthy relationship (or two) with men who could make love to her (hey, I guess it was important, wasn't it? unlike her previous childish remarks about in in season three). These people also respected her, and didn't overshadow her. She became more independent, and her future interactions with Angel in episodes show that she was becoming her own person, and didn't need Angel at her side as she used to. I agree that yeah, they might have been in love, but it wasn't meant to be. She'll always remember the time they spent together (fighting, not getting along, him turning evil, Angel feeding off her, Angel leaving her, etc. ) but they are not soul mates. I don't think that you can be a soul mate to somebody who is already dead (wether he has his soul returned or not)

unless of course, you're Spike..... 🙂 Just kidding!

 

[LadyLavinia]

Buffy's relationship with Angel was very interesting and I think it had a major impact on her life . . . but not in a very positive way. Personally, I've always considered this relationship as a symbol of "first love" or "Gothic love". The kind usually harbored by adolescents and highly idealized . . . with all of the realism of love hidden or ignored. Angel, I feel, was a symbol of Buffy's childhood - someone or something that she had to eventually outgrow.

 

[goldenboy]

You're right about the "gothic love". Although it was consummated, it's similar to the Medieval, gothic tradition of unrequited love, forbidden lovers that must forever remain apart. Courtly love. A poetic tradition. Must be an appropriate courtly love poem for Buffy/Angel.

Here's a neat link:

http://marauder.millersville.edu/~resound//court.html

I think the courtly love idea applies to Fred to a certain extent as well. Not strictly a romantic love, but putting a woman on a pedestal. Feeling ennobled through the goodness, purity of a woman.

 

[Joamna]

I'm more of a Spuffy fan, though I don't really like to talk about myself as either a Spuffy or Bangel fan. I think both releationships were right for the time being.

I don't dislike Bangel at all, I think they where cute together and Angel will always be with Buffy because he was her first big love and I also think they had a special connection. But I think it was the right choice for Angel to leave. It made them both grow as individuals..

 

[Xander]

I'm more of a Spuffy fan, though I don't really like to talk about myself as either a Spuffy or Bangel fan. I think both releationships were right for the time being.

So I'm not the only one who favours one side over the other.

Anyway, I, like many others, think that Buffy and Angel are cute together, its the kind of love you want at times. Maybe its not the most realistic but its so tender. I don't think Angel and Buffy are eachother's soul mates, but they are certainly going to be part of each others lives for as long as Buffy lives (presuming Angel survives the alley).

 

[slayerpower]

I believe Buffy was Angel's true love and Angel was Buffy's true love. In season 7's Selfless, Buffy said that she loved Angel more than anything in the world and then in the series finale, she made out with him. In season 4's Awakening, Angel said Buffy after he had sex with Cordy. For me, so much evidence points to them being each other's soul mate. I just love romantic love.

 

[DáNió]

Welll being a Bangel shipper and all.. I have to say I do like them 😀. They just go together. They love each other more than anything, and has been stated by them. I do thing that they are soulmates. They have been apart for ages but when it comes back to them two, they just want each other.

 

[Mike]

I'm a Bangel shipper, and I obviously believe that they should be together. I think Buffy loves Spike, but deep down she is in love with Angel. I don't hate Spuffy, I just prefer Bangel. Spike suffered a lot while being with Buffy, she used him. That's not true love.

Angel: "You still my girl?"
Buffy: "Always"

 

[Anchovy]

Weeeell, maybe I'm not the most...uh, unbiased person in this situation, since I never really watched Buffy and Angel together until after...like halfway through Season 5 (I got into the show at Season Four and caught myself up using internet transcripts) so I've never had the same emotional attachment to Bangel as others. But IMO, Buffy and Angel never had a "real" relationship. It was a first love, which sometimes turns into real love and sometimes....it doesn't. In Buffy and Angel's case, the "star-crossed lovers" thing, added to the fact that he's a vampire and would stay young and alive forever (all the stuff the Mayor talked about in Choices) never allowed the relationship that MIGHT have been there between these two people to blossom. It's sad and important to understanding both characters, but it's true. They were in love, for sure, but they never loved each other with the simple understanding that is necessary for a lasting relationship. There was just too much angst.

(Oh and about the "You still my girl?" "Always" line? Don't ever trust the words that come out of an eighteen year old girl's mouth when it comes to "forever" I know, I am one!)

 

[Mike]

At least she said it, when did she tell that kind of thing to Spike?. I don't understand how people don't understand that Spike isn't Buffy's true love, which doesn't mean Buffy isn't his true love. I believe Spike loves Buffy with all her heart and it's sad, but it's obvious that she doesn't feel the same...not towards him anyway.
And concerning the age,...hey, was Juliet 30?: No. Did she love Romeo?: Yes.

 

[Tainted Hope]

At least she said it, when did she tell that kind of thing to Spike?. I don't understand how people don't understand that Spike isn't Buffy's true love, which doesn't mean Buffy isn't his true love. I believe Spike loves Buffy with all her heart and it's sad, but it's obvious that she doesn't feel the same...not towards him anyway.
And concerning the age,...hey, was Juliet 30?: No. Did she love Romeo?: Yes.

Wow, that's the worst example in history. Romeo was a selfish, fickle bastard, and Juliet was an immature girl who was making the decisions. That wasn't love. That was lust, an infatuation.

Sorry.

But yeah, no, they aren't soulmates.

'Course, I don't believe in soulmates. I believe in love, of course, but soulmates is bullshit. People love you for who you are, not because you were predestined to be together.

 

[Mike]

No need to be rude. I didn't insult you or your point of view. Buffy and Angel are in love and they always will be. That's what I think. Sorry if you don't agree, but let's not fight 😉. It wouldn't be entertaining if we all thought the same, but it'd be nice if we all respected each other's opinions.

 

[Tainted Hope]

Eh, sorry. I wasn't meaning to be rude- honest. I just hate Romeo and Juliet (not the book, the characters).

I do respect your opinion- one of my closest friends (online) is Bangel, and I obligingly made a banner for her of them.

Sorry again for being rude. Didn't mean to be!

(Buuut Cangel rules. 😉) <-- my immaturity showing. *blush*

 

[Mike]

They aren't my favourite characters either 😉; but, you know, the "greatest love ever" issue there 😛.

You see, Spike is my second favourite character, and I still don't like Spuffy, and it's not because of him, I just don't believe he should be with Buffy, he deserves better than that. Spuffy would never work out, not really, having sex isn't working out. Bangel is a cuter and more real relationship. There's love, not just lust.

 

[Anchovy]

At least she said it, when did she tell that kind of thing to Spike?.I don't understand how people don't understand that Spike isn't Buffy's true love, which doesn't mean Buffy isn't his true love. I believe Spike loves Buffy with all her heart and it's sad, but it's obvious that she doesn't feel the same...not towards him anyway.

Are the words "I love you" not clear enough? Personally, I think that line is way more important than the "Always" line, because when was the last time she said that to a "significant other" or boyfriend? Angel. She never said it to Riley, she never said it during her first, destructive sexual relationship with Spike. Buffy's gunshy when it comes to I love you's, and yet she says it to Spike anyway.

And concerning the age,...hey, was Juliet 30?: No. Did she love Romeo?: Yes.

No, Juliet did NOT love Romeo. Julliet was a one-dimensional character, created to be the object of affection for Romeo's infatuation. Now, I didn't say that eighteen-year-olds (or fourteen-year-olds if you want to talk about Juliet) aren't CAPABLE of that kind of love, but I truly believe that most 18 year olds are NOT capable of expressing it in a way that is beneficial or healthy, just off-the cuff, wihtout carefully considering it first. Notice that I said "don't trust the words that come out of her mouth" not her feelings.

And about Spuffy being just about lust, I don't think that the development that happens in Season 7 would support that claim.

And yes, Buffy and Angel were in love. And yes, they will both always carry that with them. But that doesn't mean that Bangel is the only vaid relationship. It would be really sad if a young women could never move on from her first love.
Sorry to get off-topic with the Spuffy stuff, but it's kind of related...

 

[Joamna]

And yes, Buffy and Angel were in love. And yes, they will both always carry that with them. But that doesn't mean that Bangel is the only vaid relationship. It would be really sad if a young women could never move on from her first love.
Sorry to get off-topic with the Spuffy stuff, but it's kind of related...

I agree. Whatever feelings she expressed with Angel I think was true, but feelings can change, even very strong feelings. I don't believe in this "destined to be" thing, sometimes you meet someone, you fall in love, maybe it will work out if you both are willing to give it a go but not because it was destined to. So even if Buffy and Angel were very much in love they are capable of moving on..

 

[Cookie Dough]

I'm a big Bangel fan, but then again I think Angel & Cordy should have gotten together.

I think for the first 3 seasons they were perfect, young love and all that, but by the end of Angel I think he had moved on. Buffy had moved on by the middle of season 4, but I think it took Angel longer because he isn't as young as her, and he couldn't really trust himself to date anyone else.

I think I worded that completely wrong, but I know what I mean 😛

Except she didn't move on in season 4. That was the point of Riley. She tried to find a normal relationship but the fact was that she was still in love with Angel. That's why Riley left because she didn't love him with her whole heart because part of it still belonged to Angel. Angel hadn't moved on from Buffy as we saw in TGIQ. I loved C/A but I love B/A more because I feel like if Angel didn't have curse he and Buffy would be together. All the other relationships Buffy and Angel had were good too because they helped them keep living life after losing their true loves.