Library Scene in Revelations

He eventually does all of those things but he just found out in this scene it’s supposed to be raw just like Joyce reacting badly when she first learns about Buffy being the Slayer. I honestly think that the scene would have been poorly written if everyone including Giles was perfectly understanding. Why should he immediately trust her? She has been lying and sneaking around for the past several episodes and she was discovered passionately kissing him.
To me this is the difference between a loving father and a watcher. I would hope that a loving father would have faith in his daughter that she would do the right thing, and love her anyway. Here she gets a lecture on how cruel and disrespectful she is. Giles is very much the Watcher here.

Completely agree it's an amazingly well written scene, every character is so very much themselves and the whole thing is beautifully played. My issues are not with the writing or the acting or the characters. I don't really have an issue, it's simply for me Giles comes off as cruel and not the loving father everyone else seems to think him. It's a disagreement about the meaning of his words and actions. If Whedon/Petrie meant Giles to appear the loving father, then I've totally misread the scene, but even that isn't important. We may all read something different into every scene.

Agreed, lets agree to disagree on this one 👍
 
The group intervention was terrible. Anyone who knew anything about Buffy would have had Willow and Buffy talk about it and work it out.

What happened was pile on Buffy by the two people she trusts the least - Xander and Cordy. Willow was not hurtful but not at all helpful. Oz was proper but not helpful and Giles was just a total dick.

Giles is the adult in the room. Why would he think that a group effort would be helpful? It is almost like he does not know Buffy at all and does not care to know her. Maybe Giles buys in to more of the Watcher belief system than we have been led to believe...... I got the impression that Giles was using the Scoobies to almost break Buffy down. Honestly i cant think why an intelligent 40- something adult would even consider something like this. But......Giles did not speak up about the assinine party in DMP.......

Then Giles goes off on Buffy in his office, confirming all of Buffy's fears about Giles against Angel. Plus, WTF???!!!!! Giles is the adult and he sounds like a hurt and angry child here. No respect for his work? Well.....not anymore. Again, if Giles knows or cares to know anything at all about Buffy, he would have tried something else.

Xander.....what gutter scum. All bigotry and hate and jealousy. You just became your Father bro! Given how hateful and entitled Xander has been to Buffy so far, i am surprised Buffy ever speaks to him again. Is Xander capable of empathy?

Drama wise, i thought the scene was awesome. The first time i saw it, i went to break wondering how Buffy and Giles and the Scoobs could get back together again.....ever.

At the same time, the pile on Buffy was getting really old. I knew this was not possible but i also thought that Buffy should get some new friends, or, Buffy and Angel should light out to Los Angeles or someplace and some people more friendly.

TLDR: Buffy was right to keep Angel secret. Giles and Scoobies proved Buffy correct in the library.
 
He eventually does all of those things but he just found out in this scene it’s supposed to be raw just like Joyce reacting badly when she first learns about Buffy being the Slayer. I honestly think that the scene would have been poorly written if everyone including Giles was perfectly understanding. Why should he immediately trust her? She has been lying and sneaking around for the past several episodes and she was discovered passionately kissing him.

I think she needs to be reminded because she’s playing with fire. I also think that Buffy messes up like everyone else. This is a big big mess up. Adults/Mentors/Parents are allowed to express hurt and anger it’s part of their job. He would be a pretty poor parental figure if he didn’t say these things.
There's a difference between criticizing a character's actions and saying the scene should be written differently; it would be a poorly written scene if no one reacted badly, and Buffy did need to hear what was said. The writing is perfect. Giles reacting poorly is what had to happen for this scene to work. But it is still an example of Giles reacting poorly, and I think it's fair to talk about what's wrong with it and how he could have reacted better without that being the same as "this should have happened in the episode instead."

Everyone in this scene seemed, at least to me, to be more concerned about themselves than about Buffy. They were only concerned about her in the sense that they were concerned she would do something stupid that would get them hurt. They don't take into account that when Angel lost his soul he set out to ruin her life for his own amusement, that he was stalking her (and leaving evidence in her room so she would know he had been there), and then there's the added emotional trauma of feeling like she caused all of it by having sex with him & the aftermath of having to kill him. Buffy has been hurt by him, too, and nobody seems to take into account that he could hurt her again. Giles does this, too. Giles, as the adult, is supposed to look out for Buffy, and he instead talks about himself. I'm not dismissing his trauma or even saying it was wrong for him to bring it up, but to throw it in her face like that without once worrying about her is incredibly cruel. His tone is harsh, he claims she has no respect for him at all, and doesn't acknowledge her feelings or trauma at all. This is good writing. This is interesting writing. This is a bad response from him as The Adult in this situation.


Completely agree it's an amazingly well written scene, every character is so very much themselves and the whole thing is beautifully played. My issues are not with the writing or the acting or the characters. I don't really have an issue, it's simply for me Giles comes off as cruel and not the loving father everyone else seems to think him. It's a disagreement about the meaning of his words and actions. If Whedon/Petrie meant Giles to appear the loving father, then I've totally misread the scene, but even that isn't important. We may all read something different into every scene.
I don't think this scene contradicts the idea of Giles as a father figure, though. Fathers get upset, fathers get angry, fathers react badly when their kids keep things from them. He clearly is protective of her. He also is sometimes very bad at expressing his concern or disappointment in a way that doesn't completely ignore her feelings. I think he can be a loving father figure and also have moments where he's thoughtless and sometimes even outright mean, because he isn't a perfect father figure. I think we're supposed to see his actions here as motivated by concern, but his own feelings about Angel are making it hard for him to even consider Buffy's point of view. He's biased against Angel, and she's biased towards Angel, and instead of meeting in the middle and talking things out, it becomes a complete mess that ends in a lot of really hurtful words being exchanged. Families are just like that sometimes.
 
Tome
Tome
I don't agree with everything you said here, but I just wanted to say I have enjoyed reading your posts. You're like a breath of fresh air, what with the thoughtfulness you put into how you analyze each character. Fair and empathic. Props!
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