Lie To Me - Ford's wish

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LazyDolphin

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I watched the Season Two episode Lie to Me the other night, and something struck me as a bit odd.

At the end of the episode, Buffy rescues all the wannabe vampires from Spike and his minions, and she leaves Ford locked in the vault with Spike. Ford asks Spike if he can have his reward now, and the situation is very clearly set up to imply that Spike is going to just kill Ford and not reward him for his failure.

Flash forward to the final scene, where Buffy puts flowers on Ford's grave and then stakes Ford as he rises in vamp-face. What gives? Why would Spike have sired this guy who he clearly disliked, especially after he failed to deliver him the slayer?
 
we don't actually know that it was Spike who sired Ford...maybe it was Dru, or one of Spike's minions.

or, it could have been Spike who sired him, just to get up Buffy's nose. yes, he failed to deliver the slayer, but Spike's gotta know that staking one of her friends is probably one of the hardest things Buffy ever had to do. maybe he was hoping it would tip her over the edge or something.
 
I've always assumed that he only did it so that Buffy would be forced to kill somebody who was once a close friend. Okay, her and Ford may not have ended as friends but she had previously cared for him a great deal and so it can't have been an easy thing to have slayed (or is that slew? 😉) him.
 
H
Hero
[No message]
The Watcher said:
I've always assumed that he only did it so that Buffy would be forced to kill somebody who was once a close friend. Okay, her and Ford may not have ended as friends but she had previously cared for him a great deal and so it can't have been an easy thing to have slayed (or is that slew? 😉) him.
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I was having a hard time thinking of somethinhg, until reading your post. I think you are totally right.
 
Ya I agree with Spike siring him only to make Buffy kill someone close to her. I kind of wish that Ford wouldve stayed for a couple more episodes since I kind of liked him. He was the only person from Buffys past we saw after she left LA.
 
The Watcher said:
I've always assumed that he only did it so that Buffy would be forced to kill somebody who was once a close friend. Okay, her and Ford may not have ended as friends but she had previously cared for him a great deal and so it can't have been an easy thing to have slayed (or is that slew? 😉) him.
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Okay. I'll give you that for Spike's motivation. You're right, it works.

BUT. It's still a pretty crappy resolution, because they never addressed it on screen. There are some things that it is okay (or even preferable) to infer rather than show, and some things that the audience needs to see happen. Having Spike change his mind about siring Ford in order to force Buffy to slay him...that's the sort of decision that needs to be addressed on camera. Two or three seconds, just one throw away line for Spike. That's all it needed to be perfect. Character motivation isn't the type of thing that Joss usually ignores. Who knows - maybe there was a scene like that, and they had to cut it for time.
 
I think since we already knew about Spikes hatred of BUffy, thats something that wouldnt really need to be resolved on screen. Spike hated Buffy, one of her friends wanted to be a vamp, he tried to get her for Spike, failed. Buffy made Spike look stupid so he gets a little thing of revenge by siring him and knowing that Buffy would have kill them and killng friends isnt that fun to do.
 
K
Kimm
[No message]
I would have said that maybe its because Spike is good at keeping his word. But we know that's not true because he breaks his bargain with Buffy by coming back in Season 3.

Maybe it was purely for Dru's benefit. Dru made Spike listen to Ford in the first place. She knew Ford could be a useful to them.
 
That's an interesting point and I think the show leaves that for your imagination to investigate.

I mean, Ford maybe wasn't sired by Spike and well...he did deliver the slayer, he kept his end of the bargain...he delivered Buffy but Spike, Dru and his minions failed to keep her.

It was their loss, thus Ford got what he wanted but Buffy ended it at the final scene.
 
I'm going to disagree with Jules when she says Spike isn't a man of his word. In fact Buffy herself also says, "You're not famous for keeping your promises, Spike". I'm going to disagree with her too kind of. I think Spike does almost always try to keep his word. Why that is, I have no idea, but I think spikes basic trustworthiness in a bargain is a more or less constant of the series. It's true Spike did lie to Buffy and Riley, about being the doctor in Season 6, but I think that's the exception rather than the rule. Also it wasn't part of a bargain.

Here are some examples of Spike trying to keep his word in a bargain.

Offers to kill Buffy for Annointed One. Tries

Makes deal with Giles to help him get to Buffy, and lose the initiative when Giles is turned into a demon. Tries.

Pays Willy off for handing over Angel in What's My Line 2.

Spike promises he and Dru will leave the country. He doesn't exactly promise he'll never come back, and even if he did he still tried to keep his promise.

Spike: I'll take her out of the country. You'll never hear from us
again, I *bloody* well hope.
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Spike does try to keep his word to Adam in Season 4.

Spike strikes a deal with Buffy to show her how he managed to kill the two slayers, and even though it casts him in a bad light, and we can tell from the end he has obvious affection for her, he tries to honour his bargain truthfully.

Also Spike prefers to tell the truth, even when it shines a light on him which may make it more difficult to accomplish what he wants to. For example

Joyce: Have we met?

Spike: (faces her) Um... you hit me with an ax one time. Remember?
(makes an ax-holding gesture) Uh, 'get the hell away from my daughter.'
(lowers his arms)
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There are many more examples of this kind of thing.

I think it's one of the interesting contradictions of character you see in Buffy, Spike is evil, yet for some reason he prefers to shoot straight when it comes to telling the truth, and keeping a bargain.
 
Yeah I agree, Spike keeps his word.
He also helped Buffy at the end of season 2 to stop Angelus.

But as for the original question, I clearly havent seen this episode in a long time, cos i dont remember Ford rising as a vamp. I just remember Buffy and Giles and Buffy telling giles to lie to her.

I need to get my DVDs back.

But yeah, Spike does tend to keep his word, so no reason why he wouldnt turn Ford.
 
I get what your saying. But in the end I think Spike does what he wants. Spike's a very cunning, powerful vampire. I think if he really wanted to keep his promises he would.

Spike had no reason to come back to Sunnydale after he broke up with Dru. I think he just does as he pleases and makes empty promises.
 
Here's another one. Have you ever noticed how uncomfortable Spike sometimes seems to get when he's forced to fib. It's like someone made him go to a public function, and wear a suit.

An example would be when he and Buffy are talking to Joyce in Becoming 2 and Buffy locks him into the lie of being in a band together. I mean just watch him. He's squirming, and it's not the only time we've seen him act similarly in a similar situation. Far from it.
 
W
Wicked
Agreed. Maybe its something he was taught when he was brought up. His mother taught him not to lie. And you know what he's like about his mum. It would stay with him
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