Lindsey's Fate

Everytime I watch this episode it gets sadder and sadder for me. 🙁 And the scene where Lindsey dies is always so sad. You can feel how tormented Lorne was at having to kill him, and I agree that I think Lindsey always thought that if he was killed by Team Angel, it would be by Angel himself in a fight to the death over something.
 
It was a very painful and powerful scene. I don't really have a problem with Angel ordering it, I don't see it as hypocritical since he may have done horrible things as Angelus but a) I don't consider Angel/Angelus to be responsible for what the other does and b) It wasn't about punishing evil, it was about preventing it. Angel wants to change, Lindsey has had two chances and gone back on both of them. He's not so much evil as he is power hungry, it was power that got him back both times (getting a better offer and Angel getting the best offer). He may want to do the right thing now but he'll probably go back to his old ways when the better offer comes. Lilah is kind of the same, I forget how she said it but in Season 4 she joins them because they're the ones with the power now, W&H is gone.
 
I think I was surprised by Lorne killing Lindsey for two reasons. First, it was Lorne, who is not normally the killing type (as he said many times throughout the series). Second, he shot him in cold blood, with no opportunity for Lindsey to defend himself. Most of the time in the Buffyverse, the good guys fight the bad guys before killing them, so the bad guys die with some sense of honor. On Angel, however, the good guys progressively play by the bad guys' rules. Most of all, I find Lindsey's death to be a very interesting contrast with Buffy. On Buffy, Willow kills Warren because he "deserves to die" after having killed his ex-girlfriend, accidentally killed Tara, and tried to kill Buffy. But Buffy tells Willow it was wrong because he's human, and Scoobies don't kill humans. Lindsey was arguably more evil and was responsible for more murders than Warren, so his death was perhaps more warranted, but was it right (plus, Lorne kills him with a gun, which is a no-no on Buffy)? I think it just demonstrates how much Wolfram & Hart had corrupted the gang's souls, either directly or indirectly. By the end of the series, most of the gang has killed or wanted to kill another human being, because they have decided that they need to eliminate evil wherever it exists. But most of the time, they were not happy about it, and felt guilty about it. Yet as the series drew to a close, one by one, each character abandoned these qualms. Wesley feels guilty about wanting to murder his father in cold blood, but feels no such guilt about killing Knox (which in a strange way is okay, since Knox had renounced his humanity). Angel admonished Wesley for killing Knox in cold blood, but then goes ahead and orders Lorne to kill Lindsey in cold blood. And yet, they can still fight the good fight, since they're killing evil beings, no matter that they are human. I'm not complaining, since while these murders are not tolerated in real life, the Angelverse plays by very different rules. I'm just intrigued by how we can forgive certain killings, depending upon the circumstances in which they occur.
 
B
BillyidolwannaB
I'd tolerate them in real life!
I really did not like Lindsey...at all. He was tolerable in the first season, but he came back as this southern...hick. :headshake:
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
What's wrong with Southern hicks?? *pouts* I happen to be one, thankyouverymuch.
I was appalled by Lorne's murder of Lindsey. And yes, it was murder. Angel didn't order Lindsey's murder because the latter was an immediate threat. He did it because Lorne sensed that Lindsey might be a future threat. And I suspect that Angel simply needed a flimsy excuse to kill Lindsey anyway.

Not only was I appalled, I was disgusted. I was disgusted with Lorne for giving in to Angel's orders. And I was disgusted with Angel for ordering Lindsey's death in the first place. But you know what? I was not surprised. It was typical of him, with his vigilante mentality.
 
I was appalled by Lorne's murder of Lindsey. And yes, it was murder. Angel didn't order Lindsey's murder because the latter was an immediate threat. He did it because Lorne sensed that Lindsey might be a future threat. And I suspect that Angel simply needed a flimsy excuse to kill Lindsey anyway.

People often try to justify it with Lorne's prescience, but as I've said a million times, what exactly does Lorne read? Lorne said himself that nothing is written in stone. He doesn't seem to have the Cassie Newton type psychic ability and people can stray from their 'path'. Even if it was like Cassie's situation then intervening isn't an option anyway. Whatever was going to happen was going to happen. If it is not as predestined then the idea that Lindsay was going to do whatever he was going to was merely a possible path for him, not a certain.

Not only was I appalled, I was disgusted. I was disgusted with Lorne for giving in to Angel's orders. And I was disgusted with Angel for ordering Lindsey's death in the first place. But you know what? I was not surprised. It was typical of him, with his vigilante mentality.

Yeah, it made me kind of curious what exactly Lorne read. This the same Season when Angel talked about the value of humanity, even the lowest of them. Killing a human in direct self-defence, is understandable if still morally questionable but killing someone for something they haven't done yet raises a whole new set of moral questions.
 
I really liked Lindsey's character. Of the employees of WR&H, i'd say he was the least evil.

He had good in him...just it was outweighed by ambition and anger.

Nevertheless I think Angel having him killed was wrong. For one thing Lindsey had agreed to help him. Second he offered to sing for Lorne again..this could have shown if his heart had truly changed and he was a better person. But because of Angel's scheming poor Lorne had to kill him and we can neve rknow if Lindsey was on the path to redemption.

So i think it was horrible and wrong...but I love the character so maybe that' swhy.
What are your thoughts?

I absolutely agree that Angel having Lorne kill Lindsey was wrong. I believe it was completely unnecessary. Out of all of the disturbing things Angel has done, killing Lindsey really was the most shocking in my opinion. Lindsey was given no heads-up, no way to defend himself. I remember sitting there stunned when it happened.

Lindsey was trying to redeem himself. Yet, we all know that Angel will do anything if he thinks it needs to be done. He takes things into his own hands, matters of life and death - he doesn't consult with others. That's just how he is.
 
Yeah, it definitely bothered me that he was given no chance to defend himself. The way that Lorne shot him had my jaw hanging open. I knew Lindsey died in S5 (thank you, spoilers) but I didn't know who did it or why, and I was really really shocked over how it was handled.
 
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