London Riots
- Thread starter Big Damn Hero
- Start date
A lot of my family are supposed to be travelling to Liverpool on Friday for a football match but the Irish Dept. Foreign Affairs have issued a warning to all citizens to avoid the UK unless absolutely necessary. This is the first time in the history of the Irish Republic that such a warning has been issued. That really puts it into perspective for me.
I get the impression London was already quieter last night, and that the freedom to run amok peaked (in London) on Monday night. A friend just came back from a few days in London, saying it seemed normal enough, and while they hadn't been cut-off from the media i don't suppose Tottenham High road was on their agenda. Any Londoners want to comment on that?
I've been in areas of civil unrest in different countries (student in London in the early to mid-eighties, Tamil Nadu in 1987 when Ramachandran died, Israel/Palestine just before the first Iraq war, India/Pakistan during and after same), and things can seem 'normal enough' until they obviously aren't.
I was on a peaceful demonstration in East London in 1985 which was met by riot squad (did they know something i didn't?) aiming to herd us in a particular direction. When the first rock was thrown i'd say there were many people who felt the police deserved it. But when two or three people started throwing flares AT THE SAME time it became obvious that we were being manipulated and that someone had planned to turn the demo into a scrap.
So there can be a reason for protesting, and there can be a wealth of frustration in the background. For young people it can be a buzz to be part of a group that suddenly has some 'power' - destructive but power none the less. I'm not condoning it, I'm saying that once you're in that crowd it takes a good deal of strength of character to direct your own frustration in a productive way, and there has to be a sense that it's a worthwhile effort. This is what Londoners learned in the 80s. To admit that there was a frustrating system in place and to work to change it.
What the politicians and police spokes-people, and news people i've been seeing are demonstrating is that those lessons need to be learned all over again. they are right about putting a stop to the violence, but so much of their language is inflammatory, and just points out how out of touch they are.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------
The news about the three guys in Birmingham is heartbreaking. Separating the thugs from the kids is going to be a tough job.
I've been in areas of civil unrest in different countries (student in London in the early to mid-eighties, Tamil Nadu in 1987 when Ramachandran died, Israel/Palestine just before the first Iraq war, India/Pakistan during and after same), and things can seem 'normal enough' until they obviously aren't.
I was on a peaceful demonstration in East London in 1985 which was met by riot squad (did they know something i didn't?) aiming to herd us in a particular direction. When the first rock was thrown i'd say there were many people who felt the police deserved it. But when two or three people started throwing flares AT THE SAME time it became obvious that we were being manipulated and that someone had planned to turn the demo into a scrap.
So there can be a reason for protesting, and there can be a wealth of frustration in the background. For young people it can be a buzz to be part of a group that suddenly has some 'power' - destructive but power none the less. I'm not condoning it, I'm saying that once you're in that crowd it takes a good deal of strength of character to direct your own frustration in a productive way, and there has to be a sense that it's a worthwhile effort. This is what Londoners learned in the 80s. To admit that there was a frustrating system in place and to work to change it.
What the politicians and police spokes-people, and news people i've been seeing are demonstrating is that those lessons need to be learned all over again. they are right about putting a stop to the violence, but so much of their language is inflammatory, and just points out how out of touch they are.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------
The news about the three guys in Birmingham is heartbreaking. Separating the thugs from the kids is going to be a tough job.
sisterofmercy
Ray of Sunshine..
The worst is over now so it's all good. The clean up crews across the UK have been great and people are starting to be arrested and charged with it. Apparently some may even get compensation for having their buildings burned down too which is good. As a country we've dealt with a lot worse, so as terrible as it is, it's not the end of the world.
What needs to be done now really is to examine the root causes of it and where the attitude is being fostered and then try to change that.
What needs to be done now really is to examine the root causes of it and where the attitude is being fostered and then try to change that.
mayfever
Friend of all the World
The BBC said this morning the whole thing will probably cost the tax payer around 100 million quid. It's absolutely unbelievable..
Things seem to have quietened down a bit now, people are still twitchy but the shops stay open and I haven't heard sirens in a couple of hours. I live in the borough of Hammersmith and Fulham and we were quite lucky compared to Croydon and Tottenham.
I still don't know what to say. I am absolutely devastated and my faith in humanity has been a shaken up a bit by this...
Things seem to have quietened down a bit now, people are still twitchy but the shops stay open and I haven't heard sirens in a couple of hours. I live in the borough of Hammersmith and Fulham and we were quite lucky compared to Croydon and Tottenham.
I still don't know what to say. I am absolutely devastated and my faith in humanity has been a shaken up a bit by this...
ILLYRIAN
Druish Pervonian Wizard
I wonder, given that the authorities are condemning the violence, that all eyes are going to be on the justice system. Will the old laws be enacted? Specifically, where a couple moved to England and had a child in England, and because that child was born in England he/ she has English nationality.
But, in this sort of situation, the offspring could be deemed as an undesirable. That their English nationality be re-classified as 'an accident of birth' and they could then be deported, permanently.
Should that happen, well, there's a lot of countries that do not have a social security mandate, or have a human rights agenda.
But, in this sort of situation, the offspring could be deemed as an undesirable. That their English nationality be re-classified as 'an accident of birth' and they could then be deported, permanently.
Should that happen, well, there's a lot of countries that do not have a social security mandate, or have a human rights agenda.
S
sisterofmercy
I sincerely doubt that will happen. This isn't really a race issue.
After watching so many innocents dying in the Middle East recently, especially Syria, I'm not so surprised to see more people with no freaking souls. Okay, you're angry and fed up, but burning down a city and hurting people isn't gonna solve anything! Actually, it will only make your situation worst! God I hate monsters in bodies of humans!
Sorry for lashing out like that, but people these days are making me furious! God help the UK.
Sorry for lashing out like that, but people these days are making me furious! God help the UK.
brinkster130
[No message]
kittenpoker
Raising penguins in Guam
I don't know.... I mean, I don't know what it's like to be in the middle of a group of rioters... there is a kind of group mentality that takes over...I imagine it might be hard not to get swept up....
I try not to judge cause I think, anything someone does I'm capable of too...given the right circumstances
but I understand your feelings.
what happened is very scary and upsetting!