Lorne and Androgeny

[Caritas]

person OVER sex/sexuality.

These words here are hitting a lot more on what I was talking about.

 

[Caritas]

Having FINALLY read this entire threa, i do believe i can offer my own personal 'evaluation' of the Lorne Character, and his meaning, to me, in the World of Angel.

Lorne was born in a season loosely based on the 'musical'(Reading Angel goes into this side more). His role, at first, has somewhat of an Androgynous part, that does offer the whole 'sexuality' angle, while at the same time, doesnt answer what he is. THIS is the confusing factor, to me, that has this thread working so hard.
HAD we been able to clarify with certainty Lornes sexuality, and say 'twas 'Heterosexual', THEN, the significance of his actions would have further impact on people, simply because they could place his actions in one of two groups of 'the norm', in Character for a Straight man(or the universal acceptance of what a 'straight' man should do) or out of character for a straight man(universal acceptance....yadda yadda yadda).
Now, his actual sexuality does play a significant part of this conversation, simply because of its ambiguity.
Here we have a demon, whose initial introduction is that of 'high camp' value, yet often we are given the impression, this could be simply part of who he is, and thus leads us to a safe conclusion that Lorne isn't defined by a sexuality.
We then, begin to believe that this is possibly an attribute of his demon heritage.
HOWEVER, we are given a sign that again, Lorne is set apart from his own people, with the introduction of 'Landok', a fierce warrior of Lornes people, one who, by appearance is of the same 'sex' as Lorne.
This forces us to believe that maybe Lorne is again based on a misconception of Sexuality, as Landok is a fierce Warrior, and Lorne, is not.
We again begin to question Lornes sexuality, BUT this is quickly put into further dispute when we meet Lornes 'life giver'.
His 'mother' has something that Landok has, that Lorne does not.....facial hair.
Now, this could be simply a trait that both sexes(if there are two in this senario) have the ability to grow facial hair, OR could it be, that Lorne and Landok, though seemingly similar are infact different sexes.

Another point to this, the parent is refered to as the 'Life Giver' while never actually being discussed what role in that process, as an argument could be given to suggest a father is too considered a giver of life.
Again, added to this, we are never told of two parents, but one single parent, one whos sex is as ambiguous as the other two people we know of this Clan.

Its assumed Lorne is male, simply because he wears masculine clothes, is refered to as 'he' by the others, and to an extent, because he is played by a Male actor.
But heres the conundrum, what is Lorne.
To fully answer your question Caritas, we need to have a full definition of his species sex and sexuality.

The Character, while these definitions are not there, will be treated as a male. If this is the case, then, we can assume he is typical of others of his species, simply because we have seen, an opposite(His 'mother'). IF this is the case, then i think, from my own personal standpoint, that he is indicitive of a person, lost from his world, adaptive to a new set of surroundings, who integrates into society the best way he sees fit, sexually ambigous. He is a representation of a type of male that has to define his nature, while seeking a comfortable level of who he is.

His placing, and description, could not be a mistake, or an over sight, andi have to believe that it was always to be his 'destiny' to remain this ambigous, due to the lengths the writers have gone to, to keep his sexuality 'masked'. While his sex and sexuality are masked we are allowed to garner our own interpretation of his actions and his comments.
So, to me, his lack of definition is possibly a pretense, for a commentary on the Human acceptance of person OVER sex/sexuality.


I know i waffled on, and probably made no sense, but i hope i stayed in with your initial topic....lol.

Basically, the way I see it is, we can take him as a gay character if we wish and that can be very beneficial. People who are themselves homosexual can look to Lorne and see a strong character and even maybe in some small way a role model. But I simply also think we can see Lorne and his whole race as a symbol for something else too. Looking at him from a different perspective we can se a character who seems to be male, but can also, because of the ambiguity of his race's sexuality, be seen as female in a sense. A lot of people lately are saying that gender is an illusion of civilized society. Now this must be taken witha grain of salt... we have different genitals and usually pretty different chemestry between the sexes. But the whole idea of gender identification seems to me to be evolving out of our psychology as a race. I sort of think that a character like Lorne who's gender and possibly even his sexual orientation (there have been numerous hints... sometimes he seems to flirt with Angel and it generally seems like he's very attracted to him, but as someone pointed out he also has a deep affection for Fred that could almost be seen as something more than friendship) are completely without typical boundries can be a role model for our way of looking at gender in our changing world. Lorne doesn't have to be seen as male or female, gay, straight, or bi... he can be Lorne and make his own determination for himself. We wouldn't find it so odd for Lorne to be with a male, but we wouldn't find it so odd for him to be witha female. We wouldn't be surprised to learn he was male himself, but it wouldn't be a stretch to think he was actually the female of his race. We also don't HAVE to see him as male or female at all. We can see him stradling a line. We can see him as almost asexual.

I guess my point from the beging is that Lorne, because of his androgyny can be everything to everyone. Lorne, to me, is a model for a new kind of human being. We no longer need concern ourselves with things like reproduction and simple animal classification of our genders. People can be just as masculine or feminine as they want even if they seem to physically be one or the other. People can sleep with who they like and we can make the classifications of gay, straight, or bi simply ways to know what you prefer... but no one should have to restruict themselves to anything. I am a straight male, at least that's how i define myself, but if suddenly I meet a guy tomorrow who I feel a sexual and emotional connection with, I wouldn't hesitate to simply go with it. This is what I am talking about with Lorne. No one has to define him as one thing or the other... he's still Lorne, male or female, gay or straight. We are still ourselves no mater what. And sexuality is very complex. I know people who would call themselves bi, but really mostly like one sex and sometimes dable in the other. I know a gay man who would never want to have sex with a woman, but really loves breasts and lesbians. All I'm saying is that we can look at Lorne as the wave of the future... someone who can be whatever they wish and totally fit in. Someone who can even blur lines and make us uncertain and still be looked at more for who he is than for whether he likes boys or girls.