Loved It

[Randy Giles]

I know this could've been said in one of the other season four threads, but I loved the season so much I couldn't help myself.

This is - in my opinion - the best set of 22 episodes in the entire Buffyverse. I thought everything about it was simply amazing.

After season three, I was slowly starting to grow tired of Angel. I first started watching the show on TNT sometime last year, midway through season two. I absolutely LOVED it, and season three was going great for me until that hunter guy showed up. I mean, watching him every day for five days a week can grow tiring. I think he was the worst Big Bad of the Buffyverse EVER. Anyhoo, like I said, because of that I was losing my enthusiam for the show but then WHAM! Season Four shows up, and I was completely blown away. I made SURE that I never missed it...it was the only season where I absolutely could not wait until the next day.

So much went on - Connor and Cordy, the prophecy, the beast, Wesley continuing to become a darker person...I loved the arc with LA in total darkness. And the scene where Cordy stabs Lilah. (At least I'm fairly sure that was s4.) The season was basically a soap opera - not like daytime soaps of course - but in the way the episodes flowed, and I thought that was really cool. The only bummer was that if you missed an episode you'd be kinda lost.

Oh! And I can't remember which episode it is...but when Fred is going around and she sees everyone bowing when they see Cordy's "baby" (I just forgot her name!)...and she walks off all freaked out, and then the camera just pulls up and up before ending...for some reason I *LOVED* that, haha.

Anyway...before coming here I was at a board where no one seemed to like season four. They even said it was the WORST season. More people here seem to like it, thankfully.

For those of you who didn't like it - why? For those of you who did - why?

Sorry for rambling on, I'm just in a Buffyverse mood right now. 🙂

 

[FahrbotDrusilla]

I didn't hate season four, but Season 5 was my favorite. Season four was probably the most well done, seeing as it was a continuing story the whole way threw.

 

[Randy Giles]

Yeah. I loved season five, it's probably my second favorite.

BTW, I love your music video site! It says more to come...what other shows are you going to be doing?

But back on topic...I forgot to mention earlier that one reason people cited for not liking season four was that it was hard for them to keep up, especially when they had to miss an episode due to work.

 

[FahrbotDrusilla]

BTW, I love your music video site! It says more to come...what other shows are you going to be doing?

whatever shows I can think of vids to make (I'm thinking about vidding Firefly)

But back on topic...I forgot to mention earlier that one reason people cited for not liking season four was that it was hard for them to keep up, especially when they had to miss an episode due to work.

yeah I can see that, I had a friend who stoped watching due to the Cordy/Connor sex after s5 finished she watched season four and wishes she hadn't gave up on teh show at that point.

 

[Randy Giles]

Yeah the Cordy/Connor thing was a little traumatic but I think that if I were him I would've liked it so...I try not to judge. 😀

 

[eponinethen]

Honestly the Cordy/Connor thing bugged me too much, wasn't even the least bit funny, ew...

Seriously though, season 4 is just not one of my favourite, nothing compared to season 5 in my opinion. I think the reason why I started not liking it, was because I saw season 2, 3 and 4 in four days, so when I watched season 4 I was already pretty shaken cause of everything that had happened.. and seeing season 4, with all the Cordy and Connor stuff, and my dear Weasley ending up like he did.. just made me kind of depressed.. I felt really bad all the time I was watching this..

Now, having seen the season again, I do like it.. sort of.. but many things still creep me out a bit too much... And basicly, I just can't stand Connor.

 

[galathea]

I get it when someone likes season 4 for its special effects, its great action sequences or the arc-oriented structure but I personally found S4 one of the worst Angel seasons. It was full of plotholes and bad writing. Here are some points that annoyed me greatly (I apologize for being ironic in what comes now lol):

1. Why was it again that Jasmine blocked out the sun, let it rain fire and wanted Angelus so badly ... maybe she was just annoyed with all those peace she was about to bring forth and wanted to play a bit around beforehand --- that plotline was never even tried to explain

2. And if we had only known that Angel can reach perfect happiness and lose his soul when he is under an illusion -- a very questionable idea, destroying a wonderful myth in the process. It would have been easy just to avoid the whole *perfect happiness* clause and simply go for a soul-sucking demon or a shaman spell that rips the soul out .. anything would have been better than this farce that made Angel look completely stupid.

3. And wasn't Angel rather be willing to kill himself than to be a monster again in Amends .... guess that IQ remark of Cordelias just pissed him off -- Angel would NEVER EVER consent in bringing Angelus back.

4. Why was it again that AI needed Angelus so badly? Right, because Angel couldn't remember the Beast while Angelus could because "his mind wasn't there when the spell or whatever was cast" *cough* --- Angel and Angelus share the same brain/mind there is no way this could happen

5. Well, and here I was thinking that Angelus was the scourge of europe, the most viscious and malevolent vampire ever, when he was just a comedic character that likes to hang out with his joe and jack vampire buddies in a bar and talk everybody to death.

6. Don't get me even started on the whole evilCordy/Connor thing ... can I say *ewwww* .. I am not a writer and I can easily think of a dozen other possibilities to integrate CCs pregnancy into the season.

So some of the main characters were badly written, parts of the arc were pointless and had plotholes. Don't get me wrong. I like season 4, but I think the writers did a lousy job here. IMHO the best thing about season 4 is Wesley, Wesley and Lilah, Wesley and Faith. His character is beautifully developed in season 4 and his re-integration into AI was believable and well written.

 

[Randy Giles]

lol i can see where you're coming from. I just don't read into the show THAT much. As for Angelus...he was excellent character and I liked him...he was more entertaining to me than Angel is.

And for the darkness thing...it wasn't really needed, but when jesus was born (or was it died?) there was darkness for a few days...just a sign of what was going on. I think that's what the writers were shooting for. A sign of the prophecy thingee.

 

[VisionGuy]

I loved season 4. Evil Cordy is my favorite villian ever. The season was so good and had some good stories and stuff. I agree that there are a lot of things that could've been changed for the better but it still worked out really good.

 

[goldenboy]

I really liked the various arcs of this season, though they don't fit together as a whole very well at all.

This is because of Charisma's pregnancy, isn't that right? She announced she was pregnant and the writers had to scramble. I just wonder what the original season progression was supposed to be. Was Jasmine always going to be the Big Bad? Was it just Cordy birthing her that was the major adjustment? I've always wondered about that...

Here's a fun, sort of overly harsh assessment of the situation. It's kind of a good analysis of the potential pitfalls of a serialized TV show...

http://www.earlygirl.com/planb.shtml

 

[VisionGuy]

I read somewhere that Cordy was still going to be evil. But instead of being pregnant she was just gonna descend from the higher plane as like an evil fallen angel. Possesed but not pregnant. I don't think there was going to be a Jasmine arc. There was also supposed to be a fight to the death between Angel and Cordy. Although I doubt any of them would have died. I would have preferred it like this better but the story we got was also very good. Although I could have done without the Cordy/Connor stuff.

 

[goldenboy]

That "feels" right to me VisionGuy, thanks for that. Jasmine to me was sort of a fun philosophical mini-arc, but it felt tacked on.

Cordy/Connor was creepy, that actually turned me off the show for a little while. But I couldn't stay away...it was a really entertaining season despite the problems.

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I agree. Season four was a pretty good season. I especially liked the end, what with defeating Jasmine and all that. This was a decent season. I did not like the Connor/Cordelia storyline, but some good did come out of it.

 

[-Groo-]

all i can say is that i agree 100 percent.

this season was the best season of angel - imo.

 

[Croft Storm]

Season 4 is the one I find it hard to rate. For every clever tightly woven plot structure, there's a terrible bit that's unnesessary. For every awesome moment, there's a bad one.

Season plus points:

-Faith's return. Not Faith at her best, but cool all the same.
-The Beast, or at least any action sequences involving him.
-Spin the Bottle. Hilarious episode.
-Orpheus, Willow worked great on Ats.
-The lack on standalones (I'm much more of an arc fan).

Minuses:

-Connor. He had his moments in this season, but the character could have been handled better, especially when it came to Coredelia.
-"Every event from seasons 1-3 was set up to allow Jasmine to return". I hate that thought, takes away a lot of the meaning from the previous seasons.
-Angelus being required to return. What made season 2 so great was how it showed the thin line between Angel and Angelus. There is no way that Angelus would know something Angel didn't- they're the same person! Bringing Angelus back was a good idea, but I'd have just had Jasmine do it by magic as part of her resurrection plan.

 

[Schillaci]

1. Why was it again that Jasmine blocked out the sun, let it rain fire and wanted Angelus so badly ... maybe she was just annoyed with all those peace she was about to bring forth and wanted to play a bit around beforehand --- that plotline was never even tried to explain

Well, that's classic strategy, isn't it? If the time before your reign is chaotic and without order, and you come in and fix all that, it makes your subjects love you so much more.

2. And if we had only known that Angel can reach perfect happiness and lose his soul when he is under an illusion -- a very questionable idea, destroying a wonderful myth in the process. It would have been easy just to avoid the whole *perfect happiness* clause and simply go for a soul-sucking demon or a shaman spell that rips the soul out .. anything would have been better than this farce that made Angel look completely stupid.

Made Angel look completely stupid? I thought he was completely stupid anyway. I don't really get your point, though. He lost his soul through magic. The episode was a clever little trick on the viewer. Sure, a little pointless, but I don't see much wrong with it.

3. And wasn't Angel rather be willing to kill himself than to be a monster again in Amends .... guess that IQ remark of Cordelias just pissed him off -- Angel would NEVER EVER consent in bringing Angelus back.

Not sure I agree with that. He did it for the greater good. He made precautions so Angelus wouldn't escape. I mean, he didn't bring back Angelus so he could eat a bunch of people. Also season2 sleeping with Darla? Seemed consensual.

4. Why was it again that AI needed Angelus so badly? Right, because Angel couldn't remember the Beast while Angelus could because "his mind wasn't there when the spell or whatever was cast" *cough* --- Angel and Angelus share the same brain/mind there is no way this could happen

True, true.

5. Well, and here I was thinking that Angelus was the scourge of europe, the most viscious and malevolent vampire ever, when he was just a comedic character that likes to hang out with his joe and jack vampire buddies in a bar and talk everybody to death.

He killed the beast! Angelus wanted to be a hero all along! Who knew?!

6. Don't get me even started on the whole evilCordy/Connor thing ... can I say *ewwww* .. I am not a writer and I can easily think of a dozen other possibilities to integrate CCs pregnancy into the season.

I have no problem with Cordy and Connor hooking up, per se. It's just it looked so nasty.

So some of the main characters were badly written, parts of the arc were pointless and had plotholes. Don't get me wrong. I like season 4, but I think the writers did a lousy job here. IMHO the best thing about season 4 is Wesley, Wesley and Lilah, Wesley and Faith. His character is beautifully developed in season 4 and his re-integration into AI was believable and well written.

Agree 100% about Wesley.

 

[codyw1]

I don't agree it's the best season of the entire Buffyverse, but it's certainly the best season of Angel by a country mile. And I agree with you about season 3. I was on the verge of jacking it in after that hideous season. Holtz was boring, W&H were boring (I cannot tell you the level of delight on first viewing watching the Beast wipe the boring lot of 'em out - my hero! lol!) and the relationships were ludicrous. And Cordy apparently deserving to become a "higher being". I didn't know whether to laugh or puke.

And then season 4 comes along and destroys or subverts everything that was making me start to hate the show, and gives us 22 eps of sheer brilliance in the process. Marvellous. 5 wasn't quite as good but was still better than anything that came before 4. Wonderful. Shame it took so long for Joss to fully take over, if you ask me. 😉