Low flying helicopters

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
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Mundaring
Black Thorn
11:00 am 26/1/17
I am at present getting good views of the very low helicopters, the water bombers. They are refilling with water to fight the bushfire near here.
I can see the smoke covering the horizon. Thankfully the wind is pushing the forest fire a bit to the west of here and it is only 37 degrees C.
Lots of pretty helicopters though.
 
OH! I saw people filming them on the messenger. They are huge things. I have seen them from a distance - but never that close. Where is the fire? I havent seen the news or anything. Stay safe.


Last year we had fires close to the property I was on, I could see the flames but still not a threat from where I was. The Yarloop fires were on the horizon for days, the sky was glowing red. I am in suburbia this year and we have already had a fire near the hwy this summer - possibly a cigarette butt, less than a km from my home. It was a threat mainly to my garden, I am still a farm-type and I had a bunch of hay on it for mulch over summer. Very easy to catch and burn from the ashes raining on us. Water is much cheaper here though haha!

Luckily they burnt the house 3 doors down during winter 😛
 
The fire is at Julimar state forest, the water pick up point is Toodyay oval that's about 150 mtres away as the crow flies, so the helicopters passed really low over my place.
Though I have seen them up close many times before.
This summer might be a big one for bush fires as there was a lot of rain in the previous 8 months so lots of fuel grew which is now dead and ready to burn.
 
Gee wasnt it hot enough today without the earth being on fire too?

(42C on the weather for those in other lands)

Happy Australia Day.
 
Happy Australia Day!
Jeez that's hot 😕
We've got the other extreme here...I don't think it's going to crawl above zero at all today.....Just been out for a walk & it's bloody freezing out there!
 
That must be awfully scary to have a bushfire so close to where you live..... stay safe @ILLYRIAN - and happy Australia Day to all our Aussie chums! 🙂
 
Not for me, I was in the volunteer bush fire brigade for over 15 years I got used to seeing fires close up. When you know what to do the fear factor gets weak.
 
I saw this on Insight a while back -

'Our country needs to burn more': Indigenous fire manager

If the link doesnt work this is the part that stuck in my mind from the episode.

Indigenous burning: fire circles and cool fire
Indigenous burning is very distinctive, in purpose and method.

While Western cultures tend to focus on aftermath, its focus is on prevention: managing fuel loads and reading the land to ensure flora and fauna stay healthy.

Each year rural fire services across the country carry out vast swathes of backburning and hazard reduction, but Steffensen says this is entirely the wrong approach: the fires tend to burn inward, creating an inferno from which animals cannot escape and a heat so strong it burns both undergrowth and canopy.

Indigenous burning, on the other hand, is cool: temperatures remain low so flames never reach the canopy.

“The canopy is whole other world,” says Steffensen. “The canopy is so important to us because that's the life of the flowers, the fruits, the birds, the animals … that top canopy is very, very sacred and the simple rule is that it never burns.

“If you burn the canopy, then you have the wrong fire. Fire [should] behave like water, trickling through the country [so] it doesn't burn everything.”

Fire should behave like water, trickling through the country.

Traditional burns are also started from ‘fire circles’ and patterns that allow the fire to spread out in a 360 degrees radius. This allows animals to escape as they smell the smoke and keeps temperatures down, with only one fire front to manage.

Steffensen says this kind of fire knowledge has been lost over the centuries, both as a result of colonisation – the diffusion of knowledge throughout the stolen generations, the introduction of non-native weeds that spring up when the canopy burns – and of our migration towards cities. Even European pastoralists knew how to manage the land with fire, he says.

Through his teaching practices – at both community and state government level – he is hoping to educate people on the need for more fire in the land and shift the relationship from one of fear, to one of appreciation.

“We're educating the community and involving the residents and involving communities in understanding fire. Not in its vicious form or its threatening form but in its nurturing [mode].”


Gotta say, he has a point! CALM burn offs are a problem nearly every year. I dont know how many heli- water - bomber things we have now but I remember when we only had one, and while I am thankful we have such tools, they obviously arnt helping all that much with catastrophic fires every few years that take lives.

@ILLYRIAN there is no way I could stand the heat that close to a fire! Good onya. I hope you have some peace and quiet today.
 
I read that article and it means nothing to Western Australia.
He is on about burning near Cairns in Queensland where the bush is very different to here. He goes on about their burning practises, but there are some 250 different indigenous groups. Many groups will set light to an area then go home leaving many animals to die and vast areas are completely destroyed.

Before helicopters we had planes that were converted crop sprayers. The heli tankers each one carry 600 ltrs water and fire suppressants. The American one carries 1000 ltrs. I agree that more burning needs to be done throughout this country, but the different fire agencies need to work together, at present they don't. Western Australia, CFA in the eastern states and virtually all indigenous groups.

It isn't just the heat of a fire that you need to consider, chemicals, wind speed variation and topography. Then there is the smoke a big bush fire can cause the fire fighters to inhale the equivalent of 750 cigarettes. Add to that areas like Ellenbrook, Shire of Swan that is next to a Pine tree plantation, Pine trees give off a smoke that is toxic.

The CALM burn offs are only so much of a problem because vast area of land have to be burnt while crews get smaller and the number of fire vehicles get less.

The land surrounding Perth was burnt to a patchwork design. If certain areas were not burnt a wildfire could burn straight into the city.
 
The pines used to burn every year, every year we would build jumps for our ponies and every year they would be burnt down :/ We were completely black after every ride out there. Our riding school was across the road, but last time I went that way - there was a lot of housing development going on. It was gross. The place I was on last year was one of the panels to the coast - a hwy of sorts for the animals, we had more fires than I can count on my hands in the area (scrubland and dry grass) from fire bugs and lightening. But the response was so fast. The house down the street in suburbia had a slower response time when I called that in - I have no idea how this all works!

How do they track fires these days? I climbed about 2 foot up the Diamond Tree before giving up on that spotting technique.

One of my favourite areas is the 100 year forest. This area isnt all that large but it would go before anyone could respond, all it takes is a lighting strike. There hasnt been a fire through there in 130 years. The undergrowth is beautiful but deadly. Proof the natural aussie bush needs fire in its life-cycle, and will regenerate from nothing, yet I cannot see how that would not rage out of everyones control in its current state.

100 Year Forest | Explore Parks WA | Department of Parks and Wildlife

I am waiting for a fire to go through the lower south (Muir Hwy) area. Im sure you know about this stuff Illyrian, that forest scrub that is being sold off as home lots will have fires through before they even have water connected.
 
When an area is deemed to be a housing area I guarantee more fires will happen there. More people means more fires in an area.
Lightning does start fires but not that often. Take a look at the National Parks, they have look out towers with a network so they can see vast areas around Perth a rise of smoke can be triangulated to get the exact position of the fire. Plus there are spotter planes and commercial aircraft will report smoke sightings.
You may have noticed when driving on most roads that some 'cats-eyes' are blue. That is where the water hydrants are on the road side.

Problems are encountered with large fire, should a fire get near a housing estate of 100 houses and there are only 15 fire trucks.
On the date you reported that fire there might have been several other buildings on fire in surrounding suburbs.
And hi-rise building are my personal pet hate, them sodding greedy politicians and greedy real estate agents putting the prices up. In Australia land cost should be cheap enough to spread out a bit.
If you live on the eight floor of a hi-rise what are you going to do in a fire, especially when the tallest ladder on a fire truck would only reach the fourth floor. Let alone walking down a shaky ladder through the smoke from the fire.
 
The only time we have low flying helicopters is when someone's jumped off the bridge into the river. And that happens quite often.
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
or flying into pubs
We're directly under the flightpath of the Army's Chinook low level & night flying training area. During the day we get them coming over so low you can make out
what kind of 'Shades' the pilot is wearing, and at night....well it's not unusual for them to come over at treetop level at 2 or 3 in the morning. *
It's not been quite so bad recently as they are having cost cutbacks, but when they were training pilots for Afghanistan it got ridiculous.....

* - One for the pet hates thread......Whoever invented Night Vision goggles!!!!!
 
I was in South Devon, not far from the haunted castle when the RAF was doing low level flight training in readiness for the Falklands War. When they flew between the trees that was fun to see. That compares to the messages we had to get to them heli-tanker pilots that they are too low when dropping water, heavy downdraught on loads of sparks causes will create so many fires.
 
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