Lying to the Burkles

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LadyLavinia

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What the hell was Wes thinking, when he and Illyria lied to the Burkles about Fred? Did he really think he was doing them a favor, by keeping her death a secret? How stupid of him! And cruel! It may not seem cruel at first glance, but in the end, it was cruel and typically Wes. If I had found out that someone had lied to me about my child's death, I would be pissed off to no end.
 
I haven't seen all of S5, but just a question...Did Wes know that the apocalypse was impending? Because if he did, I think he did the right thing. If not then there was nothing right about it.
 
Its another thing where we should look at Angel as a text, rather then as reality. Frankly I preferred seeing Illyria posing as Fred and seeing the effects of that on Wes rather then an hour of her parents greiving. As Illyria said, we've had enough grieving. I was on tenderhooks throughout the eps because of the shift, I wouldn't of been if we had saw Mr and Mrs Burkle crying all the time.

If any of them survived im sure they would of been told during S6, or maybe Illyria's body would of been found and it was in the news and the Burkles would of been like "that looks like Fred" and maybe put 2 and 2 together.
 
Wesley did it to spare their feelings. Yes it may not have been right, but it was morally right for him at that moment. It was pretty clear that most of them (if not all of them) wouldn't be surviving the backlash from the Senior Partners. So what would be the point in telling them Fred had died except to hurt them?
 
How can lying to a couple about their daughter's death be morally okay? Please explain that to me.

What does an impending apocalypse have to do with it being all right for Wes to lie to the Burkles about Fred's death?

And why should sparing the viewers of the Burkles' grief be an excuse to condone Wes' lie?

Again, whenever Wes' dumbass decisions come up, people think of the lamest excuses to condone his actions. Why is that? Because he had died a meaningless death, while still mouring for a woman (or should I say girl) who was nothing but an illusion to him?
 
Fred was every bit a woman, why was she a girl? Shes mid to late twenties, just becasue she doesn't have a PDA and wear casual suits doesn't mean shes not a woman.

I dunno about everyone else but what I was saying wasn't an excuse to condone Wesleys actions, but rather a reason why we didn't see the whole "you're daughters dead" speech. Wesley wouldn't of let them not know forever, he would of told them if he survived, im sure of it.
 
Could have been a difficult conversation for another reason.

"Fred's dead."

"Oh my god! What happened!?"

"It's a long story. Basically, the Spirit Goddess of late Eighties Alterna-Rock possessed her body and kicked her out of it."

"So she's not dead?"

"Oh no she's very, very dead. Reeeeeeeaally dead. Really, really dead. I cannot express how dead Fred is. I mean, her soul is like, destroyed and everything. But there is a blue haired doppelganger hanging around who might look uncannily familiar..."
 
AshSan said:
I dunno about everyone else but what I was saying wasn't an excuse to condone Wesleys actions, but rather a reason why we didn't see the whole "you're daughters dead" speech. Wesley wouldn't of let them not know forever, he would of told them if he survived, im sure of it.
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YES exactly. And Wesley thought it morally right not to tell them because he was helping them avoid SEVERE amounts of pain. In his mind, it was the right thing to do.

Also - maybe he just didn't know what else TO do.
 
What doesn't make sense to me is that no one told them she was dead before this episode. Didn't Fred specifically ask Wes to tell her parents not 30 seconds before she died?
 
Jenny said:
YES exactly. And Wesley thought it morally right not to tell them because he was helping them avoid SEVERE amounts of pain. In his mind, it was the right thing to do.

Also - maybe he just didn't know what else TO do.
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It may have been the right thing to do in his mind, but IT WASN'T THE RIGHT THING TO DO. He should have been honest about Fred's death. What right did Wesley have to determine whether the Burkles could deal with the news of Fred's death, or not? Who was he to make that decision?
 
LadyLavinia said:
What the hell was Wes thinking, when he and Illyria lied to the Burkles about Fred?
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True...but I was responding to your original question which was what was Wes thinking...not whether or not it was right.
 
LadyLavinia said:
What does an impending apocalypse have to do with it being all right for Wes to lie to the Burkles about Fred's death?
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Well if Wesley knew that the apocalypse was impending, I don't think he should have told the Burkles. Let them live out whatever days they had left happy, knowing their daughter was ok, rather than being miserable and not enjoying the precious days they had left.
 
Cordelia said:
Well if Wesley knew that the apocalypse was impending, I don't think he should have told the Burkles. Let them live out whatever days they had left happy, knowing their daughter was ok, rather than being miserable and not enjoying the precious days they had left.
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What in the hell does an impending apocalpyse have to do with Wes not telling the Burkles the truth about their daughter? You honestly believe this is a good reason for him to lie? My God!
 
Her point is that since they were going to die soon anyway (With the apocalypse) what would be gained by telling them their daughter had died suffering, thus making their last days miserable ones? What he did wasn't right, I guess, but I can't say I wouldn't have at least seriously considered doing something similar...
 
C
Cordelia
Exactly...thanks for clarifying :D
Jenny
Jenny
100%
Fred: (coughing) I need you to talk to my parents. They need to know I wasn't scared. That it was quick. Th-that I wasn't scared. Oh, God.
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The MOG had plenty of time to call her parents before "The Girl In Question," hence avoiding this problem. This was Fred's dying wish, for cripes sake! Still, the transformation made for some interesting television.
 
It's easier said than done...Have you ever had to tell someone that their only child was dead? I know I haven't. I couldn't possibly imagine how hard that may be.
 
I never said that such a task should be easy, Cordelia. Or that it is. But Wes had no right to lie to the Burkles like that. Not over the death of their only child! Who was he to judge whether or not they could handle the news about their daughter's death? What right did he have to make such a decision? He seemed to regard them as innocents, or children . . . just as he had regarded Fred, when she was alive.

I think that if Fred had come back from the dead and found out what he had done, she would be pissed. I know I would.
 
LadyLavinia said:
I think that if Fred had come back from the dead and found out what he had done, she would be pissed. I know I would.
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Red Pill or Blue Pill LadyLavinia? 😀

I think Fred would have been pissed at first too, but she would have understood eventually. He's trying to honour Fred's memory, in his own very, very strange way. Borderline psychotic throat-scar Wesley is not the type to spare people's feelings... but Wes does it because he knows the Burkles are nice folk, and doesn't want to hurt them when he knows it'll benefit nobody. Just like at the end, when he asks Illyria to lie to him. Ultimately, Wes is a blue piller: He genuinely believed that he did a good thing, protecting people from harm they could have been spared for the remainder of their (short) lives.
 
Did everyone in this thread forget the episode?

Wes was about to break the news to them (although, I agree with Fat Elvis-he should have done so much earlier) when Illyria walked in dressed up like Fred and gave her parents huge hugs hello! It would be insane to tell the Burkles that Fred was dead when she was standing right there in front of them! The Burkles may not have even believed him! Never mind the fact that if Illyria really didn't want him too, which she obviously didn't, Wes' life could have been on the line for such a transgression against her.
 
Mr. Pointy
Mr. Pointy
good point, well made Jacks
B
Beer_Nut
Right on target!
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