Magic in Buffyverse

[LadyLavinia]

I found this description of MAGIC in the "ATPOBTVS" web site:

"You can say that in some sense, magic is morally neutral--neither innately good or evil in itself. It is how it is used (both intentions and consequences) that determines its status as good or evil. What makes magic on BtVS morally ambiguous is that the consequences rarely turn out according to the original intentions. Good intentions do not always lead to good consequences; and selfish intentions backfire in interesting, unexpected ways that don't necessarily have to do with any intervention on the part of "good"."

If this is true, why do many Buffyverse fans tend to label magic as either "good/white" or "bad/black/dark"? Why polarize magic itself? Shouldn't the practioner or the practioner's intent be labeled as such?

 

[Mulder22]

I don't really label magic as good or bad. Sometimes it is needed to be done. They have to use whatever tools are necessary. However, I think when you use those forces there is always a price. It is never free. Sometimes the price is steeper than other times.

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I think it is labeled as 'white magic' or 'black magic' because of the way it was used. While you could say that magic is neutral and the user should be labeled is up to you. It doesn't really make a difference. It's just the fact that magic is used in distinctly two categories: the magic done for help/support, and the magic done for malice/selfishness.

I don't really think it matters if you call the magic 'white' or 'black' as opposed to the magic user who is directing the magic a 'good witch' or 'bad witch'. It's all the same, relatively speaking.

 

[PrincessZombie]

If this is true, why do many Buffyverse fans tend to label magic as either "good/white" or "bad/black/dark"? Why polarize magic itself? Shouldn't the practioner or the practioner's intent be labeled as such?

Good question! I think that the practitioners should be the ones who are labeled, magic is neither good nor evil. It's meant to keep a balance between everything. For example, the Oracles tell Angel (in AtS) that the PtB aren't inherently good, they want to keep a balance between good and evil. I think magic is the same, and that it can't be labeled as Black or White. You can't label anything like that! There are always shades of gray.

 

[Lyri]

i've never thought about it this way, but i guess it is al down to the person weilding the magic. we all talk about willow getting hyped up on rack's 'dark magic' but what made it dark? was it rack himself, or was it more to do with the kind of person willow was? and what would have happened if, when willow absorbed all of the magic out of the books, her intentions had been good?

 

[killerdwarf]

The user's intent is the main determinant of the "darkness" of the magic, IMO, but there are certain aspects and intents of every spell that should be determining factors too. For example, a spell to actually kill someone (which I'm sure exists in the 'verse) has no other application...it is to kill someone. "Good" people don't kill (self defense aside for the moment), they bring to justice, and let others determine the fate of the miscreant. To make a real world parallel argument, let's talk handguns. Yes they can be used for target shooting, but do you really need a 9mm to target shoot? Why that much power? The answer is, you don't, and the intent of a handgun is to incapacitate or kill people. Are handguns (or magic in the Buffyverse) inherently bad? No. Are some designed for killing people? Yes. Does it depend mostly on the intent of the user? Absolutely!

 

[nerd4hire]

I get what you're all saying but - question. What does Spike mean when he's telling Buffy about Rack, and he says something like "Rack's into magiks - the black stuff"?

 

[Allycat]

Perhaps some spells are inherently evil, because it can only be employed to do evil; the intensions and consequences are always wrong. Same would go with Rack.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I don't think that nothing in this world is inherently evil. I think that everything has a positive and negative side to it. And this idea of creating characters or labeling magic as "white" or "black" seemed to be another sign of this society's bi-polar attitude.

 

[Allycat]

Well, that's a very philosophical point you have there. But then I would like to ask whether bi-polarity is a bad thing? I mean, just look at the world here around you (I mean on the boards) it's all bits; that is sequences of zero's and one's, there's nothing in between.

Anyhow, back to the point. Unfortunatly, I don't know any Buffy spells by heart, but I think I can lend one from Harry Potter to illustrate what I mean. The "Avada Kedavra"-spell is used to kill a person; if it hits you, you're history. I don't see how this spell has many positives sides to it.

I do agree with you that nothing is inherently evil in a sense that even if it doesnt leave many options, it's still the user that decides the "colour" of the spell. However, I would say that generalising certain spells as being used for evil purposes often, and thus labelling them Dark Arts, is perfectly fine.

 

[WatcherWes]

I think the way the magic is acquired ia big part of defining it as good or bad. Tara studied magic slowly and carefully, whereas Willow, especially when she was evil, took shortcuts, stealing rather than learning.

 

[killerdwarf]

I think the way the magic is acquired ia big part of defining it as good or bad. Tara studied magic slowly and carefully, whereas Willow, especially when she was evil, took shortcuts, stealing rather than learning.

Now that's an excellent point! Shortcuts usually end up in chaos...just think of construction shortcuts and what the result usually is...

And LadyL has a point, although I think "society", and the individual members of it, like easily defined hangers to put things on...it's the way humans tend to edit things to keep them in an easily-remembered form...like a mental shorthand we use to keep the playbill straight.

 

[nerd4hire]

Curses. Human sacrifice. Babyfat candles. How do these integrate into the no spell, or area of magic is inherently evil theory?

 

[killerdwarf]

I don't think that nothing in this world is inherently evil.

Oh. My bad. I was only agreeing with LadyL here about some things being inherently evil. As for the rest of society, most of us do the shorthand thing. It's either good or evil...on the other hand, some people like to look for shades of grey and use objective morality, then decry our society for having the gall to actually judge the actions of others.

 

[Allycat]

Curses. Human sacrifice. Babyfat candles. How do these integrate into the no spell, or area of magic is inherently evil theory?

Any of these could involve George W. Bush, so they're definitely not inherently evil.

No, seriously. I s'pose for most spells how dark they may seem, light purposes could be found if you look real hard. Perhaps, how hard you have to look for a light purposes could be said to define the darkness of the spell.