Man of Steel (spoilers)

[white avenger]

Why in the world would you want that, that sounds like some horrible disneyised under 12s Lois & Clark movie version. If the movie wanted to be taken seriously there is no way it could have done these, and sounds exactly like the flop version Superman Returns

That "horrible disneyised under 12s Lois & Clark movie version" has been an icon for the last 75 years plus, with no complaints. It IS Superman, just like that red-white-and-blue outfit has been what we imagine when the name "Captain America" comes up, just like the leather loincloth and bowie knife mean "Tarzan," and just like the black mask and rapier mean "Zorro," (unless he's brother Ramone, the "Gay Blade") Superman, royal blue tights, big red "S," and jockey shorts on the outside is the show horse of D C Comics, and has been the hero of American boys all of my life, and a few more years besides.

Some things are just sacred, or should be, and Superman's costume should have been one of them.

And apparently I'm not the only one who thinks so, because I just got back from Wal-Mart, and all of the merchandise tie ins to the movie that I saw there still feature that "disneyised" costume.

 

[Robb Stark]

I thought the fight choreography was horrible in this movie. If I had to single out my top complaint, that would be it. Every fight proceeded in exactly the same way. Lots of grunting, Dragonball Z-esque looks of anger and frustration, and then charge at each other. Every. Single. Fight. Brutal.

And another thing. All of Zod's crew are trained military soldiers, right? Clark Kent isn't even close to that. And yet, he can fight them all single-handedly, and win? That makes no sense. Now sure, the case can be made that he has far more experience with his powers than they do but really, it's a hole.

And yeah, the notion of Metropolis being totally and utterly destroyed, to the point of the city being almost literally wiped off the map, with thousands upon thousands of innocent people dead, and then Clark being broken up over what he had to do in the climax (which had almost zero buildup), was a little hard to buy into.

(@white avenger, I didn't mind the costume change at all. And for what it's worth, as an avid Superman reader I can readily attest that Superman has indeed had a few costume alterations over the years. I mean, his new costume in the rebooted DC "New 52" is minus the red shorts. It's not the classic look, but I mean, DC comics has altered it. I've been reading Superman for years and to be honest, I actually really like the new look. As for Superman drinking beer and things like that, that's a reflection of the comics, and has been for some time now. Lois Lane drinks in the comics, and one of the most touching, powerful moments [pre the reboot] before Jonathon Kent was killed had Clark and Jonathon sharing a beer after a day's work on the farm.

And out of curiosity, you don't like the new Batman? Why? I thought the tone and feel of Bale's Batman is almost exactly like the modern day comic version of him [or at least, Batman since about 1993], even if there are background history changes to make him more adaptable to screen)

 

[JCoatsworth]

One by one, all of my childhood heroes are being destroyed. James Bond, Tarzan, Batman, now Superman, and the Lone Ranger looms on the horizon. Somebody just shoot me. I can't go on.

Well, I thought the new Batman movies were awesome. But there are so many different versions of Batman. How can the movies destroy him? I mean, there is, for example, the old detective comics Batman, then there's badass Frank Miller comic Batman and there's the Jeph Loeb Batman. There's also the Adam West Batman and the Animated Series Batman. Which one of these versions was destroyed exactly?
Anyway, I think we agree that we didn't like the movie. You because you love the traditional Superman, I because I thought it was a bad movie. But I guess I would feel like you do, if they made a (crappy) Jurassic Park remake 😛

I thought the fight choreography was horrible in this movie. If I had to single out my top complaint, that would be it. Every fight proceeded in exactly the same way. Lots of grunting, Dragonball Z-esque looks of anger and frustration, and then charge at each other. Every. Single. Fight. Brutal.

Yeah, that's my main complaint as well. Or the action sequences in general. Too much CGI, which was rather bad, in my opinion, most fight scenes were edited like crap, and the final battle went on for too long. I mean, how long was it? Felt like at least 30, 40 minutes. 40 minutes of Superman getting thrown into skyscrapers! Now I know where that $200+ budget went. If I was a filmmaker, it wouldn't be worth that much to me.
And after the awesome fight choreography in Watchmen, I thought I wouldn't have to worry about all that...

And another thing. All of Zod's crew are trained military soldiers, right? Clark Kent isn't even close to that. And yet, he can fight them all single-handedly, and win? That makes no sense. Now sure, the case can be made that he has far more experience with his powers than they do but really, it's a hole.

Didn't Jor El say that the sunlight on earth made Kal way stronger than he could have imagined or something like that? I guess then it wouldn't be a plot hole.


The costume was pretty cool, in my opinion. But did anybody else feel like there was next to no build-up to the scene where he wears it for the first time? It didn't feel like a special moment at all.
And for a Nolan/Goyer scripted movie, the story was extremely weak. Honestly, the first teaser trailer, the one with the music from Lord of the Rings, was way better than the final movie.

 

[JCoatsworth]

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION] agrees:

But Zod's soldiers are all Kryptonian too. Their powers should be equal to Clarks, right?

But they didn't grow up on earth. I thought this was the whole point of Jor El mentioning our solar system's sun when Kal/Clark/Superman (I actually prefer to call him Clark) encounters him or his ghost or whatever. Our sun's radiation made Clark stronger than he normally would have been. Of course I could be mistaken. I only watched it once, and maybe I misunderstood.
By the way, he also says that the earth's sun allows Clark's cells to grow, which would explain his beard. So the beard is not a plot hole, it's an alteration.

 

[white avenger]

Well, I thought the new Batman movies were awesome. But there are so many different versions of Batman. How can the movies destroy him? I mean, there is, for example, the old detective comics Batman, then there's badass Frank Miller comic Batman and there's the Jeph Loeb Batman. There's also the Adam West Batman and the Animated Series Batman. Which one of these versions was destroyed exactly?

For what it's worth, this is pretty much what the original Batman character and costume costume were like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOB13T6Zmh8

Now, granted, this is just a low budget short, but it is also a pretty good example of what the original character looked and acted like. No armored chest plate to hide the actor's inadequate physique, and no super tech weaponry. Batman power was in his physical skill, not in his utility belt. It was that physical skill that made him a superhero. He WASN'T Superman or Green Lantern. He wasn't even Green Arrow. His weapons were minimal, because he never actually needed anything more. The Bat-rope, the Batarang, and a few chemicals, and that was it.

Yes, I enjoyed all of the Batman movies, but I never really saw them as anything more than an attempt by a normal man to achieve superiority through artificial means. Take all that away, and they're nothing. Like Spike said about the Slayer. They always had to reach for a weapon. The Batman I grew up with always had his.

 

[Robb Stark]

For what it's worth, this is pretty much what the original Batman character and costume costume were like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOB13T6Zmh8

Now, granted, this is just a low budget short, but it is also a pretty good example of what the original character looked and acted like. No armored chest plate to hide the actor's inadequate physique, and no super tech weaponry. Batman power was in his physical skill, not in his utility belt. It was that physical skill that made him a superhero. He WASN'T Superman or Green Lantern. He wasn't even Green Arrow. His weapons were minimal, because he never actually needed anything more. The Bat-rope, the Batarang, and a few chemicals, and that was it.

Yes, I enjoyed all of the Batman movies, but I never really saw them as anything more than an attempt by a normal man to achieve superiority through artificial means. Take all that away, and they're nothing. Like Spike said about the Slayer. They always had to reach for a weapon. The Batman I grew up with always had his.

With respect, Batman has ALWAYS been about the man. Always. His suit and tools have been updated because it wouldn't make even the remotest bit of sense for a guy to just go out and do what he does. But trust me, his physical attributes and his ability to plan and think are the key elements to him. I mean, there's a reason why he leads the Justice League...

 

[JCoatsworth]

For what it's worth, this is pretty much what the original Batman character and costume costume were like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOB13T6Zmh8

Now, granted, this is just a low budget short, but it is also a pretty good example of what the original character looked and acted like. No armored chest plate to hide the actor's inadequate physique, and no super tech weaponry. Batman power was in his physical skill, not in his utility belt. It was that physical skill that made him a superhero. He WASN'T Superman or Green Lantern. He wasn't even Green Arrow. His weapons were minimal, because he never actually needed anything more. The Bat-rope, the Batarang, and a few chemicals, and that was it.

Yes, I enjoyed all of the Batman movies, but I never really saw them as anything more than an attempt by a normal man to achieve superiority through artificial means. Take all that away, and they're nothing. Like Spike said about the Slayer. They always had to reach for a weapon. The Batman I grew up with always had his.

Well, I have to agree that the gray suit looks really awesome and I wish they'd use it in a movie again.
However, I'd say Batman's power is not in his physical skills per se. I think it's mostly his mental skills. After all, he's called the world's greatest detective.
That's why he can beat Superman although Superman is clearly physically superior.

 

[Jeff86]

I have mixed feelings with this movie, which is interesting because I do love Superman. There are alot of good things about this movie. I really liked most of the cast. Henry Cavill did a good job, I loved Amy Adams as Lois Lane, and Diane Lane gave a wonderful performance. Russell Crowe was also great as Jor-El, I even liked him almost as much as Marlon Brando in the 1978 film, which is no small feat. I did like that they gave more of a reason as to why Krypton would be destroyed, and it shockingly made sense. I love that Lois knows that Clark is Superman. It was always a tiny bit hard to buy that she couldn't figure it out (well, she does in Superman II, but then came the super-kiss at the end. I'm also not entirely convinced she didn't know in Superman Returns, mostly because she's pretty dismissive and cold towards Clark when she hadn't been in the previous films.)

Now onto the stuff I didn't like. My major complaint with this movie is that there is WAY too much action, and it just goes on and on and on and on to a point where it gets tedious. There was no time to breathe. In a good movie, you are given time to let the characters grow, so when the action kicks in, you care about what happens to them. I feel like there wasn't enough time to get to know, let alone care about any of the characters in the movie. Case in point, the tornado scene. I hate to say this, but it was hard for me to care about what happened. Mainly because the characters weren't developed very well. I felt the scenes on Krypton went on too long as well. I would have been fine with the length if it were interesting. Aside from Russell Crowe, the Krypton scenes just aren't that great. The original movie did Krypton perfectly, in 1/3 the time. Metropolis just feels like a bland city in this movie, there's nothing special about it. The realistic city approach worked in The Dark Knight Trilogy (I do absolutely love those movies) but not here. Where is the globe on The Daily Planet building? This is just a personal thing, but I didn't really care for Kevin Costner nor Michael Shannon in this movie. I don't know why, I just didn't. This movie also just felt too joyless. I didn't have much fun with this movie. For an example, the last Superman movie I saw in a theater was Superman Returns. Say what you want about that movie, (and I know I'm in the minority here) but I absolutely loved it. That movie brought out alot of joy in me, I had fun, and I left the theater feeling genuinely happy. It felt like a *Superman* movie. All I said after "Man Of Steel" was that "it was alright." I was just kinda ready to leave by the time the credits rolled. Wow, it sounds like I hated the movie, and I really didn't. I just think it's overrated, and I couldn't make my critical brain shut-up during it, which I can normally do very easily. I do plan on seeing it again, and will hopefully have more positive things to say. 🙂

 

[Spikefan31]

I saw Man of Steel last night and loved it!!! I really enjoyed the action, though its amazing how many buildings were destroyed during all the fighting. Sure, Superman saved the day, but he also caused billions of dollars worth of damage. 😀

I, too, liked how they had Lois know his identity almost immediately. I enjoyed Amy Adams' Lois, though Erica Durance's Lois is still my favourite. I loved Russell Crowe's Jor-El, which surprised me because Smallville made me really dislike the character.

Anyway, overall, I thought it was great. I'll definitely be seeing it again. Maybe in 3D next time. I just really want there to be a sequel right now. And I hope Lex Luthor makes an appearance. I loved that there were some Lexcorp trucks in the movie. 🙂

 

[Blaze]

Aright, just to get it out of the way, I usually dislike super heroes movie, and Superman is probably one of my least favorite hero. That being said, I really enjoyed Smallville and I love Snyder, so I went to see this. Now, it's probably because I like the "next gen superman" better than the original, but I absolutely loved this movie! I went in with low expectations but it really blew me away. Snyder has always been one of my favorite director and he didn't disappoint in this case. What really got me was how amazing the acting was.

Henry Cavill made a very fine Superman, he does have a very Welling look, but overall, his performance was great. I get that he was darker than some of his predecessor, but I think in this movie it worked.

Russell Crowe is the one that really blew me away thought. I was never the biggest fan of him, but wow, he made me love Jor-el, which I've never really done in a Superman movie before (although I haven't seen all the instalments).

The other actors were all great, but mostly I like where they took the characters. Lois was brilliant, and actually useful to the plot. I love the antagonist, they actually succeeded in making me feel sympathetic towards Zod. The speech that he gives at the end about [SPOILERS]being born with the role of protecting Krypton, and Clark taking away his soul purpose in life[/SPOILERS] did make me feel bad for the guy. No matter how evil he was, he reminded me exactly of how humans also are at times.

Overall, I thought the story was nice and simple, but also very well explain and without major plotholes. I really enjoyed all the back story we got on both Krypton, and how their powers worked. I didn't really find the movie too long, and actually wish there would have been a few more scenes of either younger Clark, or scenes where it's not just a big action sequence.

My negatives would have to be the overuse of the fights. I thought it was a bit overkill by the time we got at the end. The special effects were beautiful, but it could have used some more regular scenes. Also, I thought the movie was a bit cheesy at times, but that's only if I want to get really critical.

 

[JCoatsworth]

Aright, just to get it out of the way, I usually dislike super heroes movie, and Superman is probably one of my least favorite hero. That being said, I really enjoyed Smallville and I love Snyder, so I went to see this. Now, it's probably because I like the "next gen superman" better than the original, but I absolutely loved this movie! I went in with low expectations but it really blew me away. Snyder has always been one of my favorite director and he didn't disappoint in this case.

I really like Snyder's Watchmen, but I thought that his directing in Man of Steel was horrible. He even used hand-held cameras for filming dialog-heavy scenes. Why? This had no purpose at all and it looked really weird. And most of the shots were way too close, in my opinion. He should have used more wide shots.
Also the lack of Zack Snyder-style fight scenes was very disappointing to me. I don't know if the slow motion sequences would have worked in a Superman movie (probably not), but the fights were edited way to fast, in my opinion, and had too much Michael Bay shaky cam.

 

[Blaze]

I really like Snyder's Watchmen, but I thought that his directing in Man of Steel was horrible. He even used hand-held cameras for filming dialog-heavy scenes. Why? This had no purpose at all and it looked really weird. And most of the shots were way too close, in my opinion. He should have used more wide shots.
Also the lack of Zack Snyder-style fight scenes was very disappointing to me. I don't know if the slow motion sequences would have worked in a Superman movie (probably not), but the fights were edited way to fast, in my opinion, and had too much Michael Bay shaky cam.

You actually bring a good point that I completely forgot to add in my original post. What the *beep* was up with the hand-held camera shots. I guess I lost track of it during the fighting sequence, but at the beginning I was so distracted when two characters were simply talking and all I could focus on was the camera moving everywhere. In some movies, like the Hunger Games, the shaky camera works, but Superman, yikes, it just looked like a mess.

As for the fighting, I was okay with it in general. Like you said, I think most of his traditional shot wouldn't have worked for Man of Steel. I agree that fights were edited too fast, but because it was about Superman I thought it worked, if only they could have cut down the amount of scenes it would have been great.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I thought the fighting made sense, they are super, so the super speed makes perfect sense. I thought there was to much fighting when I saw it, but thinking about it after, they kinda had to keep him fighting. He can't be hurt so showing him continuously fighting makes sense.

I think the amount of destruction was unnecessary, that seemed like it was just going to outdo The Avengers. They now have to top that when they do a Justice League film/MoS2

 

[Kean]

I finally saw this today. I liked it ok but I felt like it didn't know what kind of film it wanted to be. The first half hour is a cross between A Perfect Storm and The Dark Knight, and then the rest of the film is basically Avengers and Thor. The biggest kicks I got out of the whole thing was seeing Gaeta and Helo from BSG and Toby from The West Wing. Also, the fighting was ridiculously stupid. I get that Clarke wanted to avoid killing Zod (though he seemed hilariously oblivious to the amount of death he was likely causing by destroying everything in sight), but if all Zod had to do was snap his neck why did they bother with all the carnage?

 

[JCoatsworth]

Has anybody else noticed this weird... I don't wanna call it plot hole, but it certainly is a strange part of the storyline.
Clark's biological parents send him to earth. Apparently, so he can be their leader and protector or something. But he has caused the humans nothing but misery. Sure, he saves some lives every now and then, but ultimately, he is the reason why Zod and his people come to earth and kill thousands of people. Well, they want to make earth their new home, but they never would have come if it wasn't for Clark's parents who discovered earth and sent Clark.

I finally saw this today. I liked it ok but I felt like it didn't know what kind of film it wanted to be. The first half hour is a cross between A Perfect Storm and The Dark Knight, and then the rest of the film is basically Avengers and Thor. The biggest kicks I got out of the whole thing was seeing Gaeta and Helo from BSG and Toby from The West Wing. Also, the fighting was ridiculously stupid. I get that Clarke wanted to avoid killing Zod (though he seemed hilariously oblivious to the amount of death he was likely causing by destroying everything in sight), but if all Zod had to do was snap his neck why did they bother with all the carnage?

Totally agree, although comparing this movie to The Avengers is an insult to Joss Whedon, and I feel personally offended 😛 😀
The biggest kick I got out of the movie was when Harry Lennix and Tahmoh Penikett (or Helo from BSG 😉) from Dollhouse appeared.

 

[definition of insane]

I watched this movie despite not being a big Superman fan at all. I don't know enough about the mythology really, but as a kid growing up... I just couldn't relate to this seemingly all empowered good guy who was almost unbeatable. So watching this grittier origin story was enjoyable for me. I liked that he seemed more flawed than the Superman I remembered when I was young (which was always why I was a bigger fan of Batman who was full of flaws). And lots of things going ka-bluey... and seeing Harry Lennix, Tahmoh Penikett (and a shirtless Harry Cavill) was enough to get a thumbs up out of me 😉

 

[VisionGirl]

I totally agree with [MENTION=8404]Blaze[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5973]Black Eye Guy[/MENTION], because I loved it. And I guess I was in the minority here. All I have to say is that I feel vindicated in that because my PhD cousin who is a huuuuuuge Superman fan gave it a thumbs-up. 🙂

And the beard? Damn. I do not care if it's canon. 😉