Question Marcus Hamilton VS Andrew's squad of 14 Slayers

Napoleon

Napoleon

Potential
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Black Thorn
Angel winning against Marcus was PIS.

Now, what if Marcus, off screen, confronted Andrew's Slayer squad. After Andrew "confiscated" that crazy mental patient slayer.

How do you think that fight would end up in? Each slayer are new slayers so they're not as skilled as Buffy or Faith.
 
I don't really understand how it's weird for Angel to win that fight. He won with a very creative solution. Hamilton was always strong, but he was hardly invincible.

The Slayers would absolutely tear him apart. Angel can contend with just about any Slayer, and he beat Hamilton.
 
Look at it this way...

Marcus VS Illyria and Drogyn = Marcus wins

yet

Marcus VS Angel and Connor = Marcus loses?

Drogyn, as Angel said, was powerful enough to beat Spike easily. That puts Drogyn at around the same level as Angel. Connor is also around the same level as Angel (Connor only killed Jasmine with one punch because she was off guard). Do you think Connor is more powerful than a de-powered Illyria? Marcus beat Illyria and afterwards, safe to assume, also Drogyn. Do you think Drogyn would just let Hamilton drag him out of that apartment without a fight?

Illyria is strong even without her time-slowing and dimension-traveling powers. Yet Marcus beat her.

Why it's PIS? Look at the clip of how Marcus didn't even put up his arms to block Angel. Even the most cowardly and weakest of humans know to cover oneself from a lunging attack. It's instinct.
 
But you're assuming that every fight is won through sheer, brute strength. The entire Hamilton/Angel/Connor fight shows that not to be true. Hamilton spends the bulk of it beating the hell out of both Angel and Connor. Angel bites him, drains his blood (which, I think it's safe to assume, would weaken him somewhat) and clearly absorbs a portion of Hamilton's power.

Hamilton had a weakness. Angel exploited it. That doesn't mean that Angel is "stronger" than Hamilton, he's not. But he still won the fight. That doesn't strike me as out of character or anything.
 
white avenger
white avenger
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The method of how Marcus just "lets" Angel drain him is PIS, is what I'm saying. Marcus didn't attempt to block the lunging attack. Check the clip again, Marcus even had his neck out and ready for Angel to drink from. It was PIS. Same PIS in Buffy, where, newly turned Slayers and even Xander had a chance against Turok-Hans. 1 Turok-Han is around the same level as Buffy. None of those new Slayers were on par with Buffy or Faith, let alone Xander.

Anyways, I think the right question for this thread is, how many new Slayers would it take to kill Marcus? Let me see if I can edit the title.
 
Hell, 14 slayers could take down anything, even if they were newbies under Andrew's 'leadership'.
Hamilton would have little chance in a straight-up fight, but then he probably would never allow it to happen.

Hopefully Hamilton would brutally murder Andrew first though...save Buffy (and us) a lot of grief.

Oh, and Hamilton was deeply overconfident when fighting Angel (hence the speechifying). Angel simply saw an opening and took advantage. He outsmarted Hamilton, not 'outpowered' him, and in doing so won. No Bulls**t. 🙂

Angel is awesome. Here endeth the lesson. 🙂
 
I think that Hamilton vs a team of Slayers, emphasis on the word "team" here would result in the same sort of manner as a moose vs a pack of wolves. Hamilton would be far more powerful than any single Slayer, but a coordinated attack from the Slayers would take him down simply because they would get in, always taking him from the side or rear, then getting out before he could respond. If he does manage to grab or strike one, two attack from his rear. As he turns to face one girl, someone else takes him from the back. As long as they keep him surrounded, he's virtually helpless to respond.

Hamilton's only hope would be to get into a corner or narrow hallway so that they could only attack head on, like the Spartans against the Persians at Thermopylae, but even that would be simply prolonging the inevitable. Certainly, the Slayers would take losses, but in the end, get out the butter, because he's toast.

(Incidentally, I've always thought that the same thing would have happened on Sunnydale if Buffy, Spike, and Faith took Caleb in that fashion, with the Potentials holding off any Bringer reinforcements that might have tried to interfere)
 
This would be a no weapons fight.

But wouldn't the gap between them be too big?

Take this, Gunn, who is only human can dust several vampires (all of which are stronger and faster than Gunn) by himself. Just like he dusted those vampire bodyguards of Helen Bruckner, and managed to get out of the place and meet up with Angel and Spike in the alley. He was badly injured but still, as a mere human, dusted all those vampires.

If a human like Gunn who would be weaker than a vampire, can dust that much by himself, don't you think Hamilton would be able to handle himself against a bunch of new Slayers, all of which we could safely assume aren't on par with Buffy/Kendra/Faith?
 
Again, its not always about raw strength.

Gunn, by S5 was pretty much a vampire killing expert. Punch, then feint, then stake to the heart. He also had surprise on his side, the vamps didn't know who they were dealing with and, being overconfident, paid for it.

Hamilton knows about slayers and presumable, if they're fighting him, the slayers know about Hamilton. Who he is, what he represents, etc. So there's no surprise element for either of them to exploit.

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

white avenger said:
I think that Hamilton vs a team of Slayers, emphasis on the word "team" here would result in the same sort of manner as a moose vs a pack of wolves. Hamilton would be far more powerful than any single Slayer, but a coordinated attack from the Slayers would take him down simply because they would get in, always taking him from the side or rear, then getting out before he could respond. If he does manage to grab or strike one, two attack from his rear. As he turns to face one girl, someone else takes him from the back. As long as they keep him surrounded, he's virtually helpless to respond.

Hamilton's only hope would be to get into a corner or narrow hallway so that they could only attack head on, like the Spartans against the Persians at Thermopylae, but even that would be simply prolonging the inevitable. Certainly, the Slayers would take losses, but in the end, get out the butter, because he's toast.

(Incidentally, I've always thought that the same thing would have happened on Sunnydale if Buffy, Spike, and Faith took Caleb in that fashion, with the Potentials holding off any Bringer reinforcements that might have tried to interfere)
Click to expand...

I completely agree with your last point. Celeb was strong and tough, but we saw that Buffy was way faster when she chose to be. And Faith was tough enough to take a pounding from the Beast for a while and still get up to fight the next day.
(I don't see Caleb being more powerful than the Beast, no way.)
It would've been nice to see the two slayers fighting side-by -side against the same foe, something we never actually get to see, plus Spike is a canny enough fighter to exploit any blind-sides that Caleb would leave open.
 
thetopher said:
Again, its not always about raw strength.

Gunn, by S5 was pretty much a vampire killing expert. Punch, then feint, then stake to the heart. He also had surprise on his side, the vamps didn't know who they were dealing with and, being overconfident, paid for it.

Hamilton knows about slayers and presumable, if they're fighting him, the slayers know about Hamilton. Who he is, what he represents, etc. So there's no surprise element for either of them to exploit.

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------



I completely agree with your last point. Celeb was strong and tough, but we saw that Buffy was way faster when she chose to be. And Faith was tough enough to take a pounding from the Beast for a while and still get up to fight the next day.
(I don't see Caleb being more powerful than the Beast, no way.)
It would've been nice to see the two slayers fighting side-by -side against the same foe, something we never actually get to see, plus Spike is a canny enough fighter to exploit any blind-sides that Caleb would leave open.
Click to expand...

A team effort to take Hamilton down wouldn't depend on raw strength. In fact, it would work on the principal of overcoming your opponent's superior strength by coordinating a series of less powerful attacks on a stronger adversary, causing him to expend his energy and suffer from numerous small injuries until his strength is expended and he's too weak to resist any longer.

(And I've often fantasized that that would have been Buffy's plan for a second assault on the vineyard, if the Potentials had just given her time to explain)
 
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