Mark Schwann (Producer of OTH) : Sexual Harrassment !

But the operative word here is "accuse." I'm having a serious problem with the current trend of accusing famous men of sex crimes. Especially since the media is running with it. This means that anybody can now say they were raped/felt up/whatever by someone, without a shred of proof, and within hours someone's career is destroyed. It's really, really disturbing and tragic.
 
Yea I read some stuff on Twitter last week about this. One of the writers wrote a great tweet about what it was like working with this guy. It's gross, and I feel bad for everyone involved with the show that had to endure that kind of harassment. People were afraid of getting fired if they said anything, but I'm glad that people are coming forward now after the whole Weinstein and Brett Ratner stuff that came out. Perhaps Joss' ex-wife should have waited a bit longer, cause everyone's forgot about that now. Also, one of the executive producers for CW, Andrew Kreisberg, has been temporarily removed for now, following allegations from Supergirl herself, as well as others on the various CW shows.
 
Also, one of the executive producers for CW, Andrew Kreisberg, has been temporarily removed for now, following allegations from Supergirl herself, as well as others on the various CW shows.
I just read something about it today. I find it hallucinating.
What surprises me is this kind of behavior are always so discreet. By that I mean that in this environment people are often surrounded (by other actors, the extras, the film crew) at one time there is necessarily someone who notices something, not ?
 
I just read something about it today. I find it hallucinating.
What surprises me is this kind of behavior are always so discreet. By that I mean that in this environment people are often surrounded (by other actors, the extras, the film crew) at one time there is necessarily someone who notices something, not ?
I'm sure some people notice, but they don't want to say anything and risk losing their jobs. They might "well this person is not being hurt, so it's no big deal". Even though it is. Also, what offensive or considered harassment might vary from person to person. For example, if the producer says something to a woman about her looks, she might find it inappropriate, but the crewman next to her might think the producer was just giving her a compliment. Some people just have no sense of what harassment is, and might not know they are doing it until someone says something. To be clear, I'm not defending this terrible behavior, but simply saying not everyone around them will notice it, or report it.
 
Antho
Antho
Completely agree !
There are still a lot of women who accuse him. Of course he is innocent until proven otherwise, but in the case of a "Sexual Harassment" bring proof is often impossible and it is word against word.

If it's nearly impossible to prove something like this, then the matter should be dropped. Sadly, this entire situation mirrors the Salem witch trials.

One of the things that simply infuriates me is when some dried up hag pops up on the news, claiming that she was "sexually harassed" thirty or forty years ago. Usually she's at a news conference, sitting next to Gloria Allred, and dramatically wiping away imaginary tears. As Gloria addresses the media, the alleged victim attempts to look properly traumatised for the cameras. It's a farce, and such a dangerous one; the pursuit of true justice is quickly turning into a witch hunt.

Yes, we want to punish those guilty of crimes against women...and men, of course. But we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. In other words, destroying the careers of ten innocent men to apprehend one guilty sleaze bag is atrocious and just plain WRONG.

Being tried and convicted by the media without the benefit of proof is simply an atrocity. And there is NO excuse for it. We're not righting any wrongs here; rather, we've created an atmosphere of mistrust, vindictiveness, and just plain spite.
 
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If it's nearly impossible to prove something like this, then the matter should be dropped.
I think that when we feel that an injustice has been done everyone should have the right to denounce it, whether there is evidence or not. After that it is up to the courts to do their job properly and as far as people are concerned, they have to make their own opinions. I think they're smart enough to know that in terms of the media, you have to pick up seriously some informations and leave some others.

you completely lost me with the parallel with salem .. I do not see the link ^^
 
People often turn away to someone being attacked, so sure they'll turn away from someone being annoyed, irritated, or offended....this assumes this could place them in any kind of danger, from the literal mortal kind to even just getting a bad rep as a snitch ("snitches get stitches" is pretty much true at all levels of society, though often metaphorical--I even saw a man spank his little girl for tattling on her friends--I could share about how this applies to government and police fighting child sex trafficking as well who reported on corrupt government officials and dirty cops taking part or at least taking bribes) or otherwise not someone likely to get hired again (at least not to advance) because they're someone who "makes waves." It's not limited to sexual harassment. I knew a couple of teachers who discretely tried to counter a problem because teachers who tried to publicly correct it suddenly had "paper trails" started on them that got them fired in a way their union couldn't protect them from.

As for me personally....I wasn't sure what to do once when severely harassed several times over, both of us volunteering to set up a Halloween office party (which is related to other BS actions made to appear that life is better than it actually is) and I felt restrained because I did not want to get my friend fired. I looked around but no one would look at us no matter how ridiculous he got, which they probably saw as polite, but I saw it as a sign that his behavior was normal and expected, so if I did what I normally did then I'd be "making waves" and possibly getting my friend fired (one of those damn Cosmo magazines didn't help either, making it seem from the front cover about office hook ups, which I'm sure he saw as well). I heard later that as we were volunteers then they weren't sure office policies applied to us, and that we may actually know each other and this is just how we flirt, though I believe those are more excuses than reasons.

At least it wasn't as bad as when a carload of men threatened me in broad daylight in what I presume was a decent part of the city. I looked about to see everyone, men and women, pointedly turn away. If any called the cops then the cops didn't show up until after I was long gone. But I bet at least a few of those same people are tweeting self-righteously about the Weinsteins, in part to feel better about themselves, but also because it's what gets the thumbs up, and ultimately that's what matters--public opinion, not genuine ideals or ethics or morality.
 
you completely lost me with the parallel with salem .. I do not see the link ^^

An accusation at Salem pretty much meant you were screwed as there was no way meaningful way to prove innocence (and even in the US if one could prove innocence then the damage is likely to be too much to undo, and those who knowingly made false accusations cannot be punished without a much higher standard of proof).

We in the US (and some other nations as well) saw a panic about sexual abuse in mostly the 1980s about child sexual abuse typically done as part of Satanic rites in which people's lives were ruined over even an accusation by a paranoid schizophrenic (as in the accuser had a record of psychotic delusions), which not only cost the taxpayers billions of dollars (and many politicians and prosecutors sought to exploit the sitch for their own gain, including Al Gore which is why I don't believe anything he says now and would appreciate it if he stopped discrediting certain issues by speaking on their behalf), but ruined a bunch of lives. Ironically, at least a few stayed locked up behind bars longer while their trials progressed for longer than if they were actually convicted. The sickening irony is the terror it caused many children as the state seized them, forced them to endure horrid tests which were photographed and shown to jurors, and essentially sexually abused children ritually (that's what I'd call sticking instruments in a child's butt while being photographed as part of legal procedure because of a false accusation or moral panic). They had a similar motto as today, that being, "Believe the children" (that is, those speaking for the children who tried hard to coach children into saying certain things once they got their hands on them).

I do think the accusations are likely true, but I don't blame people for seeing echoes of that. So far I've refrained from sharing why blindly believing is as unjust as knee jerk dismissal of an accusation, as I don't see a point in it because people will be people (that's not a compliment). I honestly believe the majority of people against all this have their own motives, whether it's to go along with the crowd, or even to make themselves feel better for their own abuses of others (or at least silence as someone they know did so). But that doesn't necessarily mean that most of the accusations don't hold a lot of truth to them.
 
The Salem Witch Trial were held in 1692 in Salem Massachusetts and the level of evidence required was nothing more than someone saying, "She has the evil eye", an accusation that the accused could simply look at your crops and cause them to wither.

I am with @Anyanka Bunny Killer on this one. I have a limited circle of friends but even within that circle, I know of two cases of false accusations. One was a messy divorce where the wife was from a wealthy family and accused her husband of molesting her 8 year-old son during an equally messy custody battle,. In fact, she was still breastfeeding him at 8 years old, so who was doing something inappropriate? It may happen in some cultures but not in ours.

Another case was potentially much more serious. One girl who was a friend of our daughter had claimed that a teacher had molested her, but my wife had heard her hatch her plan to say this with another girl from school when they were at our house. The teacher in question was black and was going through a messy divorce at the time, so people might be inclined to believe her. (Racism is alive and well in Canada.) This got back to the school board, which was gearing up for a court battle. My wife was asked to be ready to receive a subpoena to testify since she was the one who had overheard this. The board called me at work to see if I was a witness to any of this, but I was not. The same girl also accused other students of looking in her bedroom window at night even though she lived on the fourth floor of an apartment and there was no way for this to happen. The case never materialized - she moved out of our school district without officially making the accusation.

There was another case mentioned by @TriBel of a child worker who was accused of molesting a 12 year-old girl and he was convicted and sentenced as a registered sex offender, meaning he lost his job, had to wear an ankle monitor and had to register as a sex offender wherever he lived. The girl later recanted her testimony, saying she had only accused him because she was interested in him and wanted him to pay attention to her. But there is no way to get off the sex offender list, even if the conviction that put him on it was rescinded.
 
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I think that when we feel that an injustice has been done everyone should have the right to denounce it, whether there is evidence or not.

So, you're saying that we should automatically denounce something that might not be true? Well, that's already happening, what with all of these sexual assault allegations floating around. 😛
 
@Anyanka Bunny Killer I was disappointed to hear about Charlie Rose and I've realized it is disappointing but keep perspective, this is only a wealthy man losing a job..a job, not a life sentence for something he might be innocent of , no excessive number of former employees and others are going to accuse you of something you are completely innocent of, when ever some body utters the words "a vast conspiracy" go a head and ignore them, since that is the opposite of what conspiracy means.
 
@Anyanka Bunny Killer I was disappointed to hear about Charlie Rose and I've realized it is disappointing but keep perspective, this is only a wealthy man losing a job..a job, not a life sentence for something he might be innocent of , no excessive number of former employees and others are going to accuse you of something you are completely innocent of, when ever some body utters the words "a vast conspiracy" go a head and ignore them, since that is the opposite of what conspiracy means.


It's not so much about his wealth; one can always accumulate money. It's more about his reputation being trashed, after all those decades of hard work; he became a well-known, respected journalist/anchor, then literally overnight, it's all snatched away from him. It SUCKS and it's wrong. If we're going to persecute an old-timer for patting a chick on the ass 40 years ago, we might as well save time and fire every other man who worked at a tv station back in the day. It wasn't news if a guy called a female co-worker "hot stuff," or "you sexy thing.." Right or wrong, that's how it was. We can't change the past, nor should we retroactively punish someone because they're being judged by today's "standards."

Also, I do NOT take stock in the adage, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." Having more than one accuser doesn't necessarily prove anything. And I feel that at least half of these "victims" are just jumping on the bandwagon. Yes, yes, of course some of them might be telling the truth. But the current Democrats Gone Wild social atmosphere pretty much encourages women to point a finger at SOMEONE now. For example, if you're holding a grudge against a former boss who happens to be a Hollywood or political bigwig, well darlin', this is your lucky day! You can suddenly be in the spotlight...and get revenge at the same time. It's a two-fer! Mr. Big Wig didn't give you that bit part you auditioned for 11 years ago? Even though you slept with him? Well, now's the time to claim he forced you. All the cool kids are doing it, after all.
 
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Lets not conflate political correctness with sexual assault, I read a article titled "John Oliver was on to Charlie Rose!" because he flirted with CBS co hosts on air...uh ok? day time banter is perverted now? no, of course its not, but making it seem so anyways, this is clickbait, so if their is a "witch hunt" going on it could be addressed in the journalistic standards not with the women coming forward with sexual assault and rape allegations.

Remember everything you speak of legitimate victims also experience two fold, unfortunately making a accusation public (and going to the police with a preparator in the public eye it will become public) they have their privacy and reputation attacked, exactly what you are talking about is why it is so, so important not to speak heedlessly about something you were not there for that does not involve you even if you like the person being accused of sexual assault, I do not understand people carrying water on twitter or in the media for men they have no obligation to do so for, unless this is a personal family member you want to personally go to bat for, stay out of it (Lena Dunham) to do otherwise is it try the alleged victim in the public eye.
 
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
If these women insist on going public, whether they're truthful or not, we CAN'T stay out of it. They're EVERYWHERE & it's annoying af. :(
It's quite a tough one to judge. Clearly there have been and still are big problems across a whole range of industries, worldwide. With no real system in place to report events at the time it's understandable that a lot of stories are now coming out when people feel they'll be believed.

Having said that I simply can't accept the position that as soon as someone makes an accusation it has to be believed. People lie. I think it's best to take on board information but leave the conclusions to the relevant authorities once the evidence has been assessed.
 
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