Michelle Trachtenberg Bullied

[Vamp Jenny]

I saw a lot of talk about physical violence. That is easy to sort out. Physical violence is always out of line. But when kids call their peers fat, when is it only bad teasing and when does it become bullying?

Yes, saying someone is fat, ugly or should go jump off a cliff once might be just bad teasing. And 2 or 3 times too. But when isn't teasing just teasing anymore? After 5, 10, 20 times?

I understand what you guys said about kids crying wolf for little things, but so many children/teenagers killed themselves because of bullying that I think it's better to have more kids saying they think they're being bullied than to have more suicides.

 

[SMG14Fan]

What REALLY constitutes bullying these days? Like that example from Michelle Trachtenberg with the guys being paid for jokingly asking her out for a Dance. I would call that a prank, not bullying.

A prank is generally funny. That is not funny. That is humiliation. I know because the same thing was done to me before. I was absolutely humiliated after word got around the school that a guy was dared to ask me out, and when I said yes, he told me it was all a bet and he got paid ten dollars to do it. I was bullied pretty badly, and as humiliating as that was, far worse things were done to me. I got things thrown at me every single day, I was constantly ganged up on and pushed in the halls, I got jumped and got a bloody nose, etc. I had to transfer schools after that. This was ten years ago, but it's still hard to think about.

 

[Tuppence]

I think that's horrible what those kids did to Michelle- all of it was pure nastiness. And nasty people never prosper. So hopefully they got theirs.

That said, I do agree with what some of you are saying about kids being too quick to cry bullying. My mother works in a school and she tells me the number of times children (and parents too to talk about their child) come in saying their being bullied and when she hears the story my Mother is like 'That's girls just been bitchy. Just ignore them. Stop going on Facebook to talk back to them. They'll soon get bored'. And she's right.

Bullying for me is when someone, or a group of people, go out of their way to constantly call you out and make you miserable and/or physical violence. A girl saying 'eww, we're not friends anymore because your hair is lame' or whatever is just girls being mean girls and you're going to get stuff like that for the rest of your life.

There were a lot of instances when I was in school where kids were 'bullying' me. I had orange juice thrown in my face, people called me saying my eyebrows were a monobrow (I was eleven at the time and had yet to pluck the little fuzz in between. Getting fed up of them saying stuff though, my Mum offered to pluck them. Problem solved), someone threw gum in my hair, a group of friends fell out of with me leaving me entirely on my own in the school yard (luckily by 13 I found a whole new group of friends which I am still best friends with now). My mother at one point said did I want to stay home while it was sorted out. I replied 'No, because that gives them power'. My attitude since I was 5 years old and a girl in my class tried to make everyone hate me is that you can only be bullied if you let yourself be bullied. They're jerks so who cares what they say; find new friends. And if they are physically bullying you- don't have qualms about being called a 'grass'; just go tell on them. Or fight back. A year seven (first year high school) who was part of this s--ty little group kept mithering my friends and I (year 11. Last year. And all prefects. So they probably hated us for throwing them out in the rain so we could sit on the radiators) and threw some food at us. I threw it back; it hit the most horrible kid in the face. He came over to attempt to shove a sandwich in my mouth! As he attempted to do this I grabbed his wrist and turned it away from me (as my Mum had taught me)......his wrist snapped. Apparently I'd sprained it; mwa hahaha. Oddly enough, for the amount of fighting back I did, I never got into trouble (the benefits of being a good A* student, haha).

And then by the time I got to college (16-18 years old) our group was about 30 in numbers and no 'bullying' or nastiness at all because we were all decent people. Of course then I went to uni and met a few more nasty people, but you just don't talk to them; it's your life so cut the nastiness out of it.

Okay, so that' my rant over. (Similarly kids are always going on about being injured because a football hit them in the head, or they banged heads or whatever. Stop whining. What happened to adults saying 'give it a rub and go play'? I remember falling and smacking my head on the concrete when I was seven but I refused to go to the office because I didn't want to miss out on the game).

Wow, you guys really have set me off on a bunch of rants....I can't seem to stop!!

 

[Gum Gnome33]

Wow, just read most of this...

I think at the end of the day, whether it's teasing or bullying, in both cases something is done to actively tear down another human being and it all contributes to a loss of confidence, fear, depression, anxiety, and self hatred.

It's all toxic; the rest is semantics. I've never really been bullied, (unless you count peer pressure which we all experience), but I feel strongly that an instance in which a child feels uncomfortable because he/she is receiving any sort of negative commentary about him/herself, the issue must be investigated. I'll bet that more often than not, the child truly is the victim of inappropriate treatment from others. At what point do we decide that any act of cruelty toward another human is "big enough" to be taken seriously?

 

[Vamp Jenny]

I think that's horrible what those kids did to Michelle- all of it was pure nastiness. And nasty people never prosper. So hopefully they got theirs.

That said, I do agree with what some of you are saying about kids being too quick to cry bullying. My mother works in a school and she tells me the number of times children (and parents too to talk about their child) come in saying their being bullied and when she hears the story my Mother is like 'That's girls just been bitchy. Just ignore them. Stop going on Facebook to talk back to them. They'll soon get bored'. And she's right.

Bullying for me is when someone, or a group of people, go out of their way to constantly call you out and make you miserable and/or physical violence. A girl saying 'eww, we're not friends anymore because your hair is lame' or whatever is just girls being mean girls and you're going to get stuff like that for the rest of your life.

There were a lot of instances when I was in school where kids were 'bullying' me. I had orange juice thrown in my face, people called me saying my eyebrows were a monobrow (I was eleven at the time and had yet to pluck the little fuzz in between. Getting fed up of them saying stuff though, my Mum offered to pluck them. Problem solved), someone threw gum in my hair, a group of friends fell out of with me leaving me entirely on my own in the school yard (luckily by 13 I found a whole new group of friends which I am still best friends with now). My mother at one point said did I want to stay home while it was sorted out. I replied 'No, because that gives them power'. My attitude since I was 5 years old and a girl in my class tried to make everyone hate me is that you can only be bullied if you let yourself be bullied. They're jerks so who cares what they say; find new friends. And if they are physically bullying you- don't have qualms about being called a 'grass'; just go tell on them. Or fight back. A year seven (first year high school) who was part of this s--ty little group kept mithering my friends and I (year 11. Last year. And all prefects. So they probably hated us for throwing them out in the rain so we could sit on the radiators) and threw some food at us. I threw it back; it hit the most horrible kid in the face. He came over to attempt to shove a sandwich in my mouth! As he attempted to do this I grabbed his wrist and turned it away from me (as my Mum had taught me)......his wrist snapped. Apparently I'd sprained it; mwa hahaha. Oddly enough, for the amount of fighting back I did, I never got into trouble (the benefits of being a good A* student, haha).

And then by the time I got to college (16-18 years old) our group was about 30 in numbers and no 'bullying' or nastiness at all because we were all decent people. Of course then I went to uni and met a few more nasty people, but you just don't talk to them; it's your life so cut the nastiness out of it.

Okay, so that' my rant over. (Similarly kids are always going on about being injured because a football hit them in the head, or they banged heads or whatever. Stop whining. What happened to adults saying 'give it a rub and go play'? I remember falling and smacking my head on the concrete when I was seven but I refused to go to the office because I didn't want to miss out on the game).

Wow, you guys really have set me off on a bunch of rants....I can't seem to stop!!

If you were able to fight back or ignore them, good for you. But when I was bullied, I was stuck alone in the room with the guy and I had to endure his insults n and on while I was eating. Telling adults never got me anywhere because he was acting like a perfect kid when he was in front of them. He had most of the class with him and my friends couldn't get in between us because they were never there when he was bullying me. What should I have done?

What you said is great, when it can be done. Yeah, I snapped too, once, and I hit the guy a few times on the head with a 2'' binder. Got called to the principal's office. I didn't get detention because I was a good student and never caused trouble, but nobody believed me when I told about the bullying, because it wasn't physical.

Bitching about being friends or not over hair/makeup/clothes is just being kids, but the insults can quickly be too much. So I stand on my position: I think it's better to have more kids cry wolf than to have a higher suicide rate due to bullying.

 

[Tuppence]

If you were able to fight back or ignore them, good for you. But when I was bullied, I was stuck alone in the room with the guy and I had to endure his insults n and on while I was eating. Telling adults never got me anywhere because he was acting like a perfect kid when he was in front of them. He had most of the class with him and my friends couldn't get in between us because they were never there when he was bullying me. What should I have done?

What you said is great, when it can be done. Yeah, I snapped too, once, and I hit the guy a few times on the head with a 2'' binder. Got called to the principal's office. I didn't get detention because I was a good student and never caused trouble, but nobody believed me when I told about the bullying, because it wasn't physical.

Bitching about being friends or not over hair/makeup/clothes is just being kids, but the insults can quickly be too much. So I stand on my position: I think it's better to have more kids cry wolf than to have a higher suicide rate due to bullying.

I agree with everything you said; each person's situation is entirely unique. Even if I was without friends, I knew my Mother was there when I got home, which always helped me I think. But I do think your last comment about better cry wolf than higher suicide rate is a very good point (but just in case there was confusion as regards my saying too many come to complain to my Mum in school- it isn't bullying, it's people falling out which happens throughout everyone's life. But when it is bullying, or just bursts of nastiness etc they're right on it)

And I'm sorry you went through what you did. Hopefully Karma has kicked his butt by now. 🙂

 

[itssmiletime]

Two things:

1. What REALLY constitutes bullying these days? Like that example from Michelle Trachtenberg with the guys being paid for jokingly asking her out for a Dance. I would call that a prank, not bullying. And that thing with the breast, that's also not really bullying in my opinion, that's being an immature jerk. When I hear people's "bullying" stories, a lot of times I can't help but wonder in what kind of bubble they grew up. People have always been known to fight amongst each other sometimes and say bad things, that's the way it's always been, and that is not really bullying. At some point some people need to realize that that's just the way life is, and either you learn to stand up for yourself every once in a while or you're not really fit for life. I don't mean to downplay real cases of bullying, like when physical violence is involved, or when like a clique in school is making it their goal to destroy you no matter what, but in cases like when somebody calls you fat once, there's no need to go straight to the principal crying your being bullied and everyone is so mean to you.

2. In my experience, a lot of people who are being 'bullied' (and by this I mean mainly receiving some mean comments from their peers) kinda have it coming. I don't know what things were like at your schools, but people that are usually being targeted from where I'm from are a lot of times either
a) smelling bad, like not showering and no personal hygiene
b) fat, in which case (assuming it's not due to medical reasons) either in my opinion you should stand by your own body and not give a damn what other people say about it, or, if it bothers you that much, lose weight
c) dressing in a certain style / being part of some scene / (also including makeup, the lack of it, haircuts etc.), in which case I also think either you should stand up for the way you decide to look like or, if it really bothers you, adapt.

This probably reads pretty harsh, but that's what I think about it. People are entitled to their opinions, and in schools whenever these opinions are not exactly the nicest, a new case of bullying seems to spring. But that's the way the world works. People are not gonna shut up to convenient you. So either learn to live with what they say about you, or change to conform a bit more.

(And once again I'd like to stress that this is about the cases that imo aren't really bullying, but just kids being kids, getting a bit mean sometimes. Obviously, if it becomes an obsessive thing, physical violence is involved, it's a big group that tries to make you break down intentionally (like everyone posting on your fb wall to go kill yourself), etc., it's a different story.)

Just... wow. What a revolting post that pretty much blames being bullied onto the victim. You can lose weight, shower, yet that won't stop the bullying or torment itself. Nothing bugs me more when another kid insults another person, and just calls it 'there opinion.' If you continually call someone fat, ugly, stupid or whatever, that is considered verbal harrassment, and in many countries, it is illegal.

People have this revolting, idealised view of kids that they should brush off every insult, and stop 'being too sensitive'. But people are naturally sensitive. And if it comes down to the side of the person who is naturally sensitive verses the bully who is 'part of the world' I'd pick the naturally sensitive person any day. Just because you managed to brush off your experiences, doesn't mean I have to. You don't set the standard. Even if it is teasing, that does not make it okay.

 

[itssmiletime]

@Tueuse de Vampires: Um... where the hell in my post did I say about setting standards? The law sets the standards, and bullying is illegal, it's harrassment.

And sorry, but it's actually difficult to stand up for yourself, especially for a kid. And oh, 'the world is what it is' is just a nihilistic excuse.

Victims should never change, bullies should. If they don't, punish them.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

People have this revolting, idealised view of kids that they should brush off every insult, and stop 'being too sensitive'. But people are naturally sensitive. And if it comes down to the side of the person who is naturally sensitive verses the bully who is 'part of the world' I'd pick the naturally sensitive person any day. Just because you managed to brush off your experiences, doesn't mean I have to. You don't set the standard. Even if it is teasing, that does not make it okay.

That's where you talk about standards. You say I don't set them, I in turn said you don't set them either.

And as you say, the law does set the standards. And like I said, what I constituted as the kind of 'bullying' in my post does not include stuff like physical harrassment. The kind I was refering to (like calling people fat, or telling them they smell bad, or ignoring them) is in fact not illeagal. So on what charges would you try to convict these 'bullies'? No law can force you to be friendly to everyone, in line with what you called my 'nihilistic excuse' I'd call this utopian fairytale land.


And it's not that hard to stand up for yourself. Millions of people do it everyday. If you can't, then maybe it's time to start practicing. There world is not there to convenience you. If you don't know how to stand up for yourself, you lose. In a school environment, that's a basic law, but the same goes for anywhere else in life as well. Whether you're at work or going shopping or whatnot else. Either you're standing up for yourself and make yourself heard, or people are gonna walk all over you. You can't make other people change. But you can always change yourself if you're unhappy with a situation.

 

[Vamp Jenny]

And it's not that hard to stand up for yourself. Millions of people do it everyday. If you can't, then maybe it's time to start practicing. There world is not there to convenience you. If you don't know how to stand up for yourself, you lose. In a school environment, that's a basic law, but the same goes for anywhere else in life as well. Whether you're at work or going shopping or whatnot else. Either you're standing up for yourself and make yourself heard, or people are gonna walk all over you. You can't make other people change. But you can always change yourself if you're unhappy with a situation.

Now tell that to a 10,12, 15 years-old who's been bullied for years. It's a very nice concept and would be great if it could apply to everyone. But the truth is that most people who have been bullied (including me) take years before finding enough confidence in themselves to stand up against their bullies.

Even today, I still sometimes feel like - when people are laughing in a class - it might be of me. That missing piece of self-confidence is not something you can build for yourself overnight. It's a long process and it's hard and, when it's been totally destroyed by bullies, it can maybe never come back.

It's easy to tell someone to brush it off and stand up for themselves. But would you be willing to remind them that they're worth it every day? Because this is part of what it takes. It takes people to love them, to remind them that they are better than what the bullies say, to tell them they are worth it.

I agree that the world is a harsh place, but bullying children/tweens/teens is taking their youth away. It's destroying them to their very core, their innocence. Of course they'll face hard moments and bullying when they're grown up, and I'm not saying we should nurture them forever like flowers. But we have to take care of them and not let them be destroyed by what bullies say. Because if we do, their entire life will be just a long confidence building work. And I'm pretty sure happiness will become second in their priorities.

 

[itssmiletime]

That's where you talk about standards. You say I don't set them, I in turn said you don't set them either.

And as you say, the law does set the standards. And like I said, what I constituted as the kind of 'bullying' in my post does not include stuff like physical harrassment. The kind I was refering to (like calling people fat, or telling them they smell bad, or ignoring them) is in fact not illeagal. So on what charges would you try to convict these 'bullies'? No law can force you to be friendly to everyone, in line with what you called my 'nihilistic excuse' I'd call this utopian fairytale land.


And it's not that hard to stand up for yourself. Millions of people do it everyday. If you can't, then maybe it's time to start practicing. There world is not there to convenience you. If you don't know how to stand up for yourself, you lose. In a school environment, that's a basic law, but the same goes for anywhere else in life as well. Whether you're at work or going shopping or whatnot else. Either you're standing up for yourself and make yourself heard, or people are gonna walk all over you. You can't make other people change. But you can always change yourself if you're unhappy with a situation.

The difference is that your standards are for bullied victims, whereas my standards are for the bullies themselves. A world of difference. To me, bullies whose behaviour is vile must have standards imposed on them, as in the situation of bullying, the victims are innocent. And plus, I'm really not into the whole tell victims how to react line of thinking.

And no, you can't always change yourself. Just because someone calls you fat, doesn't mean you are fat. Familiar with the labelling theory, derived from many sociologists? That someone deems you stupid, you will think you are stupid. Bullying has proven depression, anxiety, OCD, eating disorders, etc. Such issues people have absolutely no choice whether or not they develop them.

But say if you are actually fat. Just because you lose weight, doesn't mean the bullying will stop at all.

I really take offence to the line 'And it's not that hard to stand up for yourself. Millions of people do it everyday. If you can't, then maybe it's time to start practicing.'

First off, heaps of bullied victims have tried standing up for themselves. Thousands of times. Because society always imposes the blame on the victim. Oh just ignore it. It will go away. You are completely in control of the situation.

And what the hell, 'millions of people do it everyday'. Well, actually, first, the amount of bullied people in say a classroom tend to be in the minority. And just because someone has the "strength" to get over being bullied, doesn't mean everyone else would.

And well, for other situations, if someone is caught using obsense language in the street, they can be fined by the police. Workplace bullying is a gigantic problem. I mean, it's bad enough to shrug it off in the school environment, but to brush it off in every situation? Wow. Bullying should be taken seriously in every situation, whatsoever.

And bullying is illegal.
Firstly, parents sign a contract when their kids enter a school, go to a workplace about behaviour. Like, for example, in my school diary, I had to sign a contract that I wouldn't bully people. If I violate that contract, I broke the law. There isn't a particular legislation, however, there have been some very successful law cases where victims have sued their bullies for damage. And the bullying is completely verbal or emotional.

What I would do to a 15 yr old bully? Whatever measures it. Suspension. Expulsion. Detention. And being bullied goes far far beyond being unfriendly. It is constant harassment, vile insults, emotional manipulation. As someone who has been bullied all throughout school, from kindegarten to high school graduation, being bullied isn't someone that can be solved by 'standing up for yourself' or 'ignoring it'.