You really think that women have equal rights? Well, can't we tell THIS was written by a man! Besides, being a feminist IS about fighting for equal rights for ALL women. EVERYWHERE in the world.
Why did she downplay the 'poor female' act? Because it is EVERYWHERE. Still. Have you ever seen/heard Joss Whedon's views on feminism? He wrote Buffy because HE didn't like the 'poor female' bullshit that was going on in the world.
Oh, and just so I'm clear. You say that feminism is no longer necessary because we have the exact same rights as males... What was the date that this occurred?
The exact date? Well since different countries in 'the western world' exacted different laws, at different times, there is no exact date that is common amongst all of them. How could there be?
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Suffice to say though that the western world has had equal gender rights for decades. Gender Discrimination is unlawful in every western country there is.
Feel free to find the exact dates each country acknowledged equal rights, if you're interested in legislature dates and that sort of thing.
You appear to contend that women do not have equal rights in the western world? why is this?
If you have some evidence to support that women don't have equal rights in the western world, then by all means I'd be very interested to see it.
As I'm a fan of BtVS I know all too well that Joss Whedon got the idea for the show when he thought to himself, what if I turned the - woman in need of help trope/archetype on it's head, wouldn't that be interesting?
(and I paraphrase) 'wouldn't it be great to see the monster follow the girl down the alleyway, and it is the girl that walks away?'.
That is not to say that in REAL life women don't need help at times, just like men need help sometimes. Buffy does herself need help at times, and that help happens to come from both men and women, this is a true representation of life. We're helped by different people at different times in our lives.
Why would I denigrate received help if it was a woman who helped me? Similarly, if I were a woman, and the help happened to come from a man, why would I denigrate that help, because it came from a man? Wouldn't doing so just demonstrate that I was nothing more than a sexist bigot?
This is exactly what this modern feminist has done though, and I'm aghast you support it.
I don't recall Buffy ever showing a disdain for being helped by a man, despite her girl power role model status. (In 'When She was Bad' that wasn't disdain IMHO)
Maybe I'm picking you up wrong, but are you contending that the ''women in need of help'' trope, or the representation of women in the media is some kind of breach of equal rights?
It may be boring, sure, and I think Whedon tapped into that fact that it is boring seeing women constantly protrayed in the same manner, but I wouldn't go to the extreme and call it a breach of your rights.
Lastly the ''Can't we tell THIS was written by a man!'' comment was uncalled for, but again further strengthens the argument that modern feminism in the western world is not concerned with equality, as it is somehow deemed acceptable to say such things, and indeed look kindly upon such sexist condescension.
Put yourself in my shoes, Imagine I wrote to you ''Can't we tell THIS was written by a woman!'' in response to your post?
Would I be able to get away with that, without rightly being called out as a bigot?
---------- Post added at 02:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 AM ----------
And heeeeeeere we are. What is Modern Feminism™ anyway. On this board, you'll find a lot of feminists living in the western world today, does that make us modern?
The Penny lady in the OP links describes herself as a modern feminist. So that's what I was going on, Granted technically speaking I too am a Modern Feminist, i support equal rights, equal pay etc. but the type of feminism Penny spouts is in no way what I agree with.
Just look at rape as an example: When was the last time you, or any of your male friends, felt the need to think several times about which route to take home after dark to minimise risks? When was the last time you heard a bloke's outfit described as "practically asking for it"?
These are all terrible things I agree, but how can you link them with equal rights? If you rape someone you break the law and are sent to prison for(I hope) the rest of your natural life.
Equal rights essentially means it is unlawful to discriminate against either gender. Once you have that as a central part of your law, then you have equal rights.
Even if Men had zero rights and women had them all, there would probably still be rape and other violations of the law. Do you agree? That appears to be a law enforcement issue, Not an equality one.
There are many areas in my locality in which I do not like to go after dark(as I'm sure there is in yours) as they're centers of crime, drug use and a frequent area for violent incidents and so on. But again, how has this anything to do with equal rights? Is this not another issue altogether?
I believe that equality for all is worth striving for because I believe that it forms the basis for a better life for all in the long run, men and women alike.
Agreed.
---------- Post added at 03:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 AM ----------
Women has not had equal rights for decades. I live in Sweden, a country that are often reffered to as one of the most equal countries in the world and here women still don't have equal pay,
Are you serious? that is an outrage, this is completely new to me, how is that still going on, especially, as you say in a place widely regard as an equal country?
As this was new to me I looked it up and got this:
''On average, women’s monthly salaries are 94 percent of men’s when differences in choice of profession and sector are taken into account.''
Since both parties presumedly do the same work, it is an outrage that they don't get the same salary for the same job.
In saying that though, this pay differential is not lawful and if an employer can be shown to be preferentially paying men more then women,
then a court case is taken against them.
http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Society/Equality/Facts/Gender-equality-in-Sweden/
So it appears Sweden does have equal rights, but there are some criminals who break the law.
The "current modern feminist thinking" can't be lumped together like you are doing now, expecting every feminist to think the same way. Women are a diverse group and have diverse needs. (Multiple struggles are going on, and that's a good thing. You can join as many as you want! And, just for the record, men are being held back by the stereotypical thinking we have regarding gender on a structural level too) But the core of feminism is the same: that men and women should have equal rights, obligations and choices. Right now they don't. So stop turning feminism in to something it's not. Feminism is a beautiful thing. :heart:
Ah, I understand why you might have thought it unfair of me to lump all ''current modern feminist thinking'' together.
The issue I was raising in this thread is about the extreme feminism I've encountered, an example of which is the Penny lady in the OP.
I scratch my head when the likes of Penny start talking, as like you said, the core of feminism is about equality and that's what I agree with, but it is the likes of Penny's feminism that cause me to try and divorce myself from it, the form of feminism she is speaking about, isn't at all a beautiful thing. The Core, as you said though is beautiful.
