I don't think Spike knew what Buffy wanted. It was more complicated her having a type. I believe the qualities and pitfuls were inherent in the relationships themselves mainly because despite Spike and Angel being different, Spike, Angel and Riley are very different and each relationships had different premises and flaws.
You remember Buffy's First Date line "Why everybody thinks I'm still in love with Spike?". Well after that, Willow said that Robin Wood is "like 100 years younger than your type!", implying that Spike is Buffy's type.
He was but as Riley pointed out, that wasn't the main reason for the vampire whores, nor was it his main complaint about the relationship. His question is whether she needed him enough to stay.
Great points, Kana. I get where you're coming from.
I never liked that ultimatum Riley gave her. I didn't think it was fair. There wasn't enough time for her to make an informed decision. This was my issue with Riley in the first place; he needed her to need him. He couldn't handle being in a relationship with someone who was self-reliant like Buffy. It call goes back to his inferiority complex. She's the Slayer, he's a human man. It just couldn't work. And yes, Buffy was willing to be with Angel as a human but that was because she already loved him, as you say. Riley, I argue she never loved. Sure, Xander convinced her to ask to him to stay, but she was too late anyways.
But anyways; if you feel like your girlfriend doesn't need you enough you don't go looking for kicks with vampire whores - you talk to her. Riley gets no points in my book, I don't feel bad for him at all. No pity for him here. Riley did everything the wrong way, IMO. I did feel bad for him in the sense that I could tell he really loved Buffy - but no one could make her love him. Love chooses you. Buffy chose Riley because he was "normal" and what she thought she needed, but there was no passion there, only affection, as we see she still has for him now, in S8.
You remember Buffy's First Date line "Why everybody thinks I'm still in love with Spike?". Well after that, Willow said that Robin Wood is "like 100 years younger than your type!", implying that Spike is Buffy's type.
Lol, I remember that, that was great but I think it was a joke. I doubt she is as superficial as to want someone who'd seen both world wars. Still I had high hopes for her and the Immortal,
until their ship was decononized.
I never liked that ultimatum Riley gave her. I didn't think it was fair. There wasn't enough time for her to make an informed decision. This was my issue with Riley in the first place; he needed her to need him. He couldn't handle being in a relationship with someone who was self-reliant like Buffy.
I think it was a fair point though. Riley's ultimatum was 'love me or let me go'. which when you think about should be a no brainer if you truly love someone. It's not the same as saying, forgive me or I'm gone and I think that was the mistake that she made. I wasn't a case of being self-reliant, it was a case of pushing him away. I've experienced this situation from both sides and happily admit when I was in Buffy's position I was wrong. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I think part of being in a relationship is being close to each other even when things are tough not holding them close whenever it was convenient (a little like how Xander was treating Anya)>
It call goes back to his inferiority complex. She's the Slayer, he's a human man. It just couldn't work.
Again, I totally buy Riley in that scene in ITW. Yes, it started out as a macho thing but I think it was more about Buffy pushing him away. I actually says that Buffy being stronger than him was hard sometimes but that's not the reason he upset. It was more about her pulling away from that made him insecure not her being stronger than him.
And yes, Buffy was willing to be with Angel as a human but that was because she already loved him, as you say. Riley, I argue she never loved. Sure, Xander convinced her to ask to him to stay, but she was too late anyways.
I'm not so much arguing whether she loved him but ehy she pulled away from him. Is it really because she needs someone supernatural? Did she love Spike more than Riley? The debate rages on.
But anyways; if you feel like your girlfriend doesn't need you enough you don't go looking for kicks with vampire whores - you talk to her. Riley gets no points in my book, I don't feel bad for him at all. No pity for him here. Riley did everything the wrong way, IMO. I did feel bad for him in the sense that I could tell he really loved Buffy - but no one could make her love him.
Ok no one condones Riley's actions, but what most people don't focus on is why he did it. This was Xander's point, so Riley's ultimatum was fair: Love me or let me go. If she truly decided that she loved him then they could have a chance, if not then let him go. I feel bad for both of them in the end, and kind of wish she got to him in time.
Love chooses you. Buffy chose Riley because he was "normal" and what she thought she needed, but there was no passion there, only affection, as we see she still has for him now, in S8.
We don't know if this is because she got burned by Angel, Xander seems to think so. Sometimes when someone breaks our heart, we don't open it fully to anyone else or if we do we hold back with our feelings. Spike himself believed that he never really had Buffy's heart so in blondie bear's opinion the only person she loved was Angel, which personally I don't believe for a second, I don't necessarily believe that Buffy needs a monster in her man or needs a supernatural guy. As I've always said, it hasn't worked out with any of her guys and it's all been for different reasons. Overall, she hasn't shown herself to be happier with the vampires and I wouldn't call her stage of self-loathing and eschewing her responsibilities wasn't passion or if it was it wasn't the kind of passion that Buffy wanted in the long term and long term was always what Buffy was looking for. What is she looking for overall? Well it's back to cookie dough I suppose...
"Why everybody thinks I'm still in love with Spike?". Well after that, Willow said that Robin Wood is "like 100 years younger than your type!", implying that Spike is Buffy's type.
HAH! I'd forgotten about that. Still in love. STILL IN LOVE! *Does a little dance of joy* Although I think the "100 years younger" line was about both Spike and Angel, hah. But still.... still in love!
Anyway, now that the gloating is done, I'm going on to talk about Riley. I think it was both Riley feeling inferior and Riley not feeling needed. He obviously had a problem with being weaker than Buffy, and when she describes him as "weak and kitteny," I guess I can't really blame him. I don't think he could deal with his woman being so much stronger than him. He's a good old farm boy, and he believes the men should protect the woman. And even if Sam isn't like that, I have a feeling Sam still relies on him and lets him help her, which is more or less what I think Riley wanted.
Buffy was cut-off because of Angel, I'm almost sure of it. She didn't want anyone back in her heart, because Angel broke it while he was there. That kind of epic love isn't something you just forget; the pain stays with you. Buffy could have let herself depend on Riley emotionally if not physically, but she never did. I can just imagine how it felt to him, to have her so unreachable. And Joan, I think there were times he told her. Maybe not about all of it, but he certainly told her that "loving you is the scariest thing I've ever done." She knew his fears, and she knew he loved her. She should have been more careful. Of course, we all make mistakes, and I understand Buffy's reasons. But Xander was right when he said Buffy used Riley as the rebound. He was never truly in her heart.
HAH! I'd forgotten about that. Still in love. STILL IN LOVE! *Does a little dance of joy* Although I think the "100 years younger" line was about both Spike and Angel, hah. But still.... still in love!
I know. I love that line, too. 🙂 All us Spuffies do.
Anyway, now that the gloating is done, I'm going on to talk about Riley. I think it was both Riley feeling inferior and Riley not feeling needed. He obviously had a problem with being weaker than Buffy, and when she describes him as "weak and kitteny," I guess I can't really blame him. I don't think he could deal with his woman being so much stronger than him. He's a good old farm boy, and he believes the men should protect the woman. And even if Sam isn't like that, I have a feeling Sam still relies on him and lets him help her, which is more or less what I think Riley wanted.
Buffy was cut-off because of Angel, I'm almost sure of it. She didn't want anyone back in her heart, because Angel broke it while he was there. That kind of epic love isn't something you just forget; the pain stays with you. Buffy could have let herself depend on Riley emotionally if not physically, but she never did. I can just imagine how it felt to him, to have her so unreachable. And Joan, I think there were times he told her. Maybe not about all of it, but he certainly told her that "loving you is the scariest thing I've ever done." She knew his fears, and she knew he loved her. She should have been more careful. Of course, we all make mistakes, and I understand Buffy's reasons. But Xander was right when he said Buffy used Riley as the rebound. He was never truly in her heart.
I agree. I don't think Buffy loved Riley. I think she could have, if given more time - but Riley was given an opportunity and instead of waiting around for her to decide what she wanted, he left for bigger and better things. I don't blame him.
She tells Riley she "can't" date him because she is convinced that being the Slayer prevents her from having a real relationship. She assumed that what happened with her and Angel would happen with her and Riley, too. Basically, she didn't want to get Riley hurt.
HAH! I'd forgotten about that. Still in love. STILL IN LOVE! *Does a little dance of joy* Although I think the "100 years younger" line was about both Spike and Angel, hah. But still.... still in love!
To be totally honest...I hate that line! The reason being is because I actually think Spuffy deserves more than that. In this so called Spuffy season Bangel gets an admission from Buffy that she loved him more than she will love anything in this world, with virtual tears. Somewhere along the line she supposedly admitted to herself that she loved Spike after stating she didn't love him. The first admission she makes out loud is the most unromantic utterance of romantic intent I'd ever heard. It was played out as a joke. Her first admission should have been to Spike himself and it should have been heartfelt. Sorry rant over.
Anyway, now that the gloating is done, I'm going on to talk about Riley. I think it was both Riley feeling inferior and Riley not feeling needed.
I still think it's more about the latter. Sure Riley admitted it was hard sometimes but he also stated that wasn't the main problem. It was mainly about Buffy pushing him away.
He obviously had a problem with being weaker than Buffy, and when she describes him as "weak and kitteny," I guess I can't really blame him. I don't think he could deal with his woman being so much stronger than him. He's a good old farm boy, and he believes the men should protect the woman. And even if Sam isn't like that, I have a feeling Sam still relies on him and lets him help her, which is more or less what I think Riley wanted.
I could actually argue it wasn't so much about a gender thing and more about a person who had a mission but then lost it, a long with their strength, friends and sense of purpose. For someone like that it would be hard to adjust, especially when the other half is getting stronger. However, to be honest, if Buffy let him in, I don't believe it would have been insurmountable. Many couples go through things like this (in RL terms maybe the career girl has kids and puts the career on hold while the husband becomes more successful in his career) and they can come out the other side.
Buffy was cut-off because of Angel, I'm almost sure of it. She didn't want anyone back in her heart, because Angel broke it while he was there. That kind of epic love isn't something you just forget; the pain stays with you. Buffy could have let herself depend on Riley emotionally if not physically, but she never did. I can just imagine how it felt to him, to have her so unreachable. And Joan, I think there were times he told her. Maybe not about all of it, but he certainly told her that "loving you is the scariest thing I've ever done." She knew his fears, and she knew he loved her. She should have been more careful. Of course, we all make mistakes, and I understand Buffy's reasons. But Xander was right when he said Buffy used Riley as the rebound. He was never truly in her heart.
Agreed, but this is why I'm stating that just because Riley was just human doesn't mean it was doomed, or it doesn't mean that was the reason it was doomed. None of Buffy's relationships really worked out anyway so we can't say that Spike and Angel were the shining examples. She admits partly it was down to her but sometimes it was due to circumstance. She cared about all three men and regretted how things didn't work out with them. All of them were different but all of them had different flaws. I applauded her in Chosen because she saw the problems with Bangel as they were and while she didn't necessarily see a rosy future with Spike either ("And, no, I don't see fat grandchildren in the offing with Spike" off Angel comment that a relationship with Spike wouldn't en well) it doesn't mean its all doom and gloom forever and it doesn't mean she doesn't love them possibly all three. I think it at least means something that she was willing to make all her relationships work or create a stablizing bond. I think something as deep as that doesn't require preternatural strength. It goes deeper than that. It requires someone who sees Buffy beyond her being a Slayer but it also requires her to see herself that way, unfortunately this balance has never been acheived, not yet anyway.
I disagree with the idea that Buffy can never have a relationship with a human. I think most of the fans seem to focus more on Buffy's demon side and forget completely about her human side. If we're talking technical here, Buffy can't make it work with humans and vampires. The perfect match for Buffy would be Satsu, a slayer like her, who's as strong and still can grow old with Buffy, do humans activities with her. But I don't care about technical, and who's best for Buffy, I care about Buffy herself, who she loves, what she wants. Buffy can make it work with a human or a vampire or a slayer if she really loves them and they love her back.
Buffy's relationship with Riley shouldn't be the example of all human/slayer relationships. Their relationship didn't work because of them as persons, not because Riley was a human.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
