More threatening? William The Bloody or Angelus?

I would say before the show, we were dealing with Angel, not Angelus, so you would have to go back before the gypsy curse to the period where Angelus was more devious and liked torture more than William the Bloody. After the curse, Angleus was trapped and no comparison was possible. Once Angelus was released again, he became far worse than William the Bloody.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
Good point, I was thinking pre-curse.
I'd say Angelus. Because Angelus would kill everyone you loved first, and would make your death slow as part of his art, while Spike just killed without putting too much thought into it.

I have a comic that showed Angelus in the past that struck me as true to the character, in which Angelus was so offended by a vampire hunter's faith, that he tormented him in ways very similar to Holtz, including turning his family and forcing the man to slay the loved ones turned vampire (Angel even hands him a stake as he's struggling against I believe his wife turned vampire). And as a final stroke, he spared the man's infant son. As Angelus sees him one last time (the man now in an asylum) the man asks why Angelus won't just kill him (even begs for it), and Angelus explains that without the father, the son will know a life of misery, and he's to live to think of all that his arrogance not only cost him, but now costs his son on the streets...and then left him to die of old age in the asylum, never to see him again. I'd personally rather just be killed by William the Bloody (who wouldn't have the patience and inspiration for such cruelty) than suffer things like that.
 
Yeah agreed with the trend, Angelus is far more threatening, in a more sadistic way.

You're a bit of fun to kill for William the Bloody.
 
Have to agree with everyone else. Angelus is a sadist. I think Spike would at least make it quick
 
Priceless said:
I think Spike would at least make it quick
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Torture with railroad spikes?

Both were utter sadists who liked to inflict physical, psychological and emotional torture on their victims just for fun.

The difference lies in their motives and priorities. Angelus saw it as a twisted sort of art (the complete destruction of a human being) where Spike liked the "rush" in simply doing evil and not following any rules.

What makes Angelus more threatening to me, is that he's by far more cunning, patient and focused.
 
DoktorRock said:
Torture with railroad spikes?

Both were utter sadists who liked to inflict physical, psychological and emotional torture on their victims just for fun.

The difference lies in their motives and priorities. Angelus saw it as a twisted sort of art (the complete destruction of a human being) where Spike liked the "rush" in simply doing evil and not following any rules.

What makes Angelus more threatening to me, is that he's by far more cunning, patient and focused.
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I think of Spike as a killing machine, with quantity being more important than quality 🙂 Whereas Angelus rates the style of a kill more highly. They are both evil and will kill you, but I think that if you didn't put up a fight, Spike would just kill you, but Angelus would see that as a challenge and would want to make you suffer and fight back, but always believing he would win of course
 
Rash and impulsive kill vs cold sadistic kill?

More 'threat' = Angelus. He was focussed on making his victims' lives hell. At least Spike would have killed you fast. I'd prefer Spike to catch me, over Angelus, any day.
 
Priceless said:
I think of Spike as a killing machine, with quantity being more important than quality 🙂
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That's a part of Spike, of course, also that he, opposed to Angelus, liked a challenge where he didn't automatically come out as the winner. Hence his possession of fighting and killing Slayers.

But there are also the many hints that Angelus used to be his mentor (especially in AtS S05). He taught him his ways and Spike tried to follow suit.

He got his name in the first place because he liked to torment his victims using railroad spikes (Giles in "Schools Hard"). That's all evidence that it wasn't all about the quick kill for him but that he also enjoyed the torture.

Everything you said about Angelus is correct. 🙂
 
DoktorRock said:
That's a part of Spike, of course, also that he, opposed to Angelus, liked a challenge where he didn't automatically come out as the winner. Hence his possession of fighting and killing Slayers.

But there are also the many hints that Angelus used to be his mentor (especially in AtS S05). He taught him his ways and Spike tried to follow suit.

He got his name in the first place because he liked to torment his victims using railroad spikes (Giles in "Schools Hard"). That's all evidence that it wasn't all about the quick kill for him but that he also enjoyed the torture.

Everything you said about Angelus is correct. 🙂
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I thought 'Spike' came from a joke about someone would rather be stabbed by a railroad spike than listen to Williams poetry? I might be remembering this wrong as I haven't seen it for a while. Though I do also rememeber Giles talking about the railroad spikes, so I'm not sure about this one. 🙂

I wonder why such a fascinating and imaginative sadist like Angelus never did kill a slayer? Maybe Spike was more of a risk taker who didn't feel the fear as much so wouldn't run, he 'lived' in the moment, while Angelus looked to the future
 
Priceless said:
I thought 'Spike' came from a joke about someone would rather be stabbed by a railroad spike than listen to Williams poetry? I might be remembering this wrong as I haven't seen it for a while. Though I do also rememeber Giles talking about the railroad spikes, so I'm not sure about this one. 🙂
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He got the name "William the Bloody" because of his poetry when he was still human.

"Have you heard? They call him William the Bloody because of his bloody awful poetry!" (Fool for Love - BtVS S05:E07)

When he became a vampire he used the nickname as an ironic mockery of his former plaguer.

Spike came later. He called himself like that the first time (onscreen) also in "Fool for Love" in front of Angelus. The reference to railroad spikes comes from Giles in "School's Hard". It has nothing to do with his poetry (As far as I know).

Priceless said:
I wonder why such a fascinating and imaginative sadist like Angelus never did kill a slayer? Maybe Spike was more of a risk taker who didn't feel the fear as much so wouldn't run, he 'lived' in the moment, while Angelus looked to the future
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Because his challenge lay in destroying/tormenting human minds. The Slayer's mind isn't any different to a common human's. And Spike was right, Angelus wouldn't have openly confronted a Slayer because she represented a serious threat to his unlife. He rather played it safe, and since there is no difference in destroying a strong human's to a Slayer's mind, he didn't see the need to go to the trouble of travelling through the world just to seek out the Slayer. (IMO 😛) He simply hadn't an interest to proof his evilness through his fists.

Spike was different. His main challenge lay in the physical fight as well as the rush of putting himself in immortal danger. To defeat someone or something that was stronger than him and, regarding the Slayer, only existed to fight and kill his kind.
 
I think Angelus wasn't as physical as Spike . Sure he was evil but he also liked to play it safe where Spike liked the challenge unlike Angelus.
 
I think Spike didn't care about dying. That's why he went for the toughest targets, slayers. It was only later on, once he'd met Buffy, that he made the decision to live. 😀
 
ChaseRules
ChaseRules
So are you saying Angelus was scared then ?
Angelus, definitely.

I also find it funny how Spike got his nickname from his preferred method of torture, yet we never actually see him torture anybody.
 
Samuel Reyes said:
Angelus, definitely.

I also find it funny how Spike got his nickname from his preferred method of torture, yet we never actually see him torture anybody.
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Very true. All his kills were very quick. I am sure his nickname comes from his bad poetry, not his killing skills
 
I think it depends on the personality of their target, who of them is more threatening. Generally, for all people who are kind, caring, moral, have someone or something to lose that is not simply their life, Angelus is a bigger threat. For people who are more kind of rebels, physically strong and normal or strong minded, I would say Spike. To me personally I would say Angelus also is a bigger threat, alas for reasons different than mentioned above. For me it would be since I believe in god ( and he has a thing for torturing any kind of people related to morality and religion), moreover I am an emotional person and prone to emotional torture, again a thing for Angelus.
 
Sternbeeere said:
I think it depends on the personality of their target, who of them is more threatening. Generally, for all people who are kind, caring, moral, have someone or something to lose that is not simply their life, Angelus is a bigger threat. For people who are more kind of rebels, physically strong and normal or strong minded, I would say Spike.
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Isn't that kind of a false dichotomy? Aren't there people who are kind, moral caring, have someone or something to lose who are also rebels who are physically stong and/or strong minded? Arguably Buffy herself fits this bill and Angelus was not only a threat to her but also everything she holds dear, the net result of which is arguably worse than Spike has threatened.
 
Priceless said:
I think Spike didn't care about dying. That's why he went for the toughest targets, slayers. It was only later on, once he'd met Buffy, that he made the decision to live. 😀
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I think Angelus didn't give a shit about dying. (Am I allowed to curse in this forum?) He openly mocked The Master, knowing he could get killed for it, and even face down on the ground, after getting his ass kicked, he still defied The Master and encouraged Darla (The Master's favorite child) to leave with him. He also rejected The Beast's offer while, again, expecting to die.
Angelus had a set of principles he lived by: he rejected love entirely, liked to live large, always had to be the biggest Big Bad in the room and worked for no one. And if defending this got him killed, so be it. Even during season 2 with Buffy, I think, no matter how arrogant he was, he knew he was playing with fire. He knew that Buffy probably wouldn't kill him, but definitively could. Yet he didn't back down from a challenge. Frankly, his indifference to death makes him particularly dangerous. The thing Angelus seemed to care about the most was his pride. Besides that, there was nothing he feared losing, unlike Spike, who loved Dru and his comfortable existence. Angelus was willing to suck the world into hell even though it meant losing a lot of things he actually liked on Earth. Spike, on the other hand, thought that was crazy even for vampire standards. His indifference it's probably one of the reasons he was so patient while inside the cage. He didn't seem to really fear getting his soul back.
I think Angelus lived in the now. That doesn't mean he wasn't patient and willing to wait for the right time, but he was all about making the best of every moment. I kind of admire, in a way, how joyful he always is. He lives moment by moment doing things he likes (Darla, Dru, killing, maiming, turning friends against each other, watching ballet). He doesn't fear death because that's a concern for the future. Like I said, even in a cage, he made the best with what he had, knowing he would get his chance for freedom, but for now, he was just enjoying ruining everyone's already fragile relationships.
So, to conclude (why can't I ever be brief and to the point?!) Angelus is the bigger threat for all the reasons above mentioned and, like everyone else said, because Spike would just kill you and Angelus would make you beg for death.
 
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