Most hated Buffyverse character? Kennedy or Justine?

[Joshua]

Two of the most hated characters in the Buffyverse but who do the fans hate the most and who do you hate the most?

Kennedy or Justine

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Kennedy

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I never understood why people hate Kennedy, so I have decided to assume racism ... mixed with homophobia ... the subtle, internalised kind - the one that people aren't aware of themselves.

Holmesian deduction: Once you have rejected the impossible, the only possible explanation must be the true one.

 

[Bop]

I'd say people hate Kennedy more but personally I hate Justine more out of the two of them. Justine could have been redeemable to me if she had kept her fight strictly with vampires, as I sympathise with her need for revenge. She had lost a twin sister to a vampire. However, she went after Connor and innocents which made her unsympathetic.

I don't understand why people hate Kennedy so much, I used to just be kind of neutral on her, but now I love her and I admire her bravery and confidence. I think most people hate her because she's with Willow, but that's just nonsensical. I love Tillow more than anything but Tara died would you rather have seen Willow cry over it for the whole of season 7 over seeing her with Kennedy?

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I never understood why people hate Kennedy, so I have decided to assume racism ... mixed with homophobia ... the subtle, internalised kind - the one that people aren't aware of themselves.

Holmesian deduction: Once you have rejected the impossible, the only possible explanation must be the true one.

So you assume that just because Kennedy is gay and not white (though I always thought that she was white) that the only reason people hate her is to do with racism and homophobia? You're saying that it has nothing to do with the fact that she is a stuck up brat who throws her weight around, initiates a mutiny that gets Buffy thrown out her own house all because Kennedy wants a bigger say, who harasses Willow until Willow gives in, who bullies a younger girl which contributes to said girl committing suicide and played a big enough factor that even the first can basically say "you helped cause this" WITHOUT lying. You're saying that people who hate Kennedy are only doing it because they're racist and homophobic, seriously?
 

would you rather have seen Willow cry over it for the whole of season 7 over seeing her with Kennedy?

In a word: Yes.

Willow needed time to grieve but Kennedy wouldn't give Willow that because she wanted Willow for herself. That's all she cared about, especially as being with Willow made her feel more important than the other potentials.

 

[Bop]

Willow needed time to grieve but Kennedy wouldn't give Willow that because she wanted Willow for herself. That's all she cared about, especially as being with Willow made her feel more important than the other potentials.

I think Kennedy wanted Willow to forget about Tara and have some fun, so yes she could be called pushy but it's only because she wanted Willow to be happy again. I think that Willow and season 7 paid a lot of respect to Tara, 'Same time, same place','The killer in me' and 'Conversations with dead people' all have Willow grieving for Tara. The show wanted to end on a high note and show Willow getting better and they used Kennedy to make that happen. I don't see anything wrong with that 🙂

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

So you assume that just because Kennedy is gay and not white (though I always thought that she was white) that the only reason people hate her is to do with racism and homophobia? You're saying that it has nothing to do with the fact that she is a stuck up brat who throws her weight around, initiates a mutiny that gets Buffy thrown out her own house all because Kennedy wants a bigger say, who harasses Willow until Willow gives in, who bullies a younger girl which contributes to said girl committing suicide and played a big enough factor that even the first can basically say "you helped causethis" WITHOUT lying. You're saying that people who hate Kennedy are only doing it because they're racist and homophobic, seriously?

Call it a working hypothesis. The hatred towards Kennedy is pretty extreme. It has to be more than her being a rich brat or her silly drill sergeant routine.

If Kennedy had slit Xander's throat and trapped Dawn in Pylea, then I would understand the comparison.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I think Kennedy wanted Willow to forget about Tara and have some fun, so yes she could be called pushy but it's only because she wanted Willow to be happy again.

Therein lies the problem, it's all about what Kennedy wants. At no point is it about what Willow wants. Kennedy has a go at Willow for standing up for Buffy.

I think that Willow and season 7 paid a lot of respect to Tara, 'Same time, same place','The killer in me' and 'Conversations with dead people' all have Willow grieving for Tara. The show wanted to end on a high note and show Willow getting better and they used Kennedy to make that happen. I don't see anything wrong with that 🙂

When Willow turns into Warren because she feels guilty over kissing Kennedy, that is a massive sign she hasn't finished grieving Tara. But Kennedy doesn't care about that, so long as she gets what she wants.
 

Call it a working hypothesis. The hatred towards Kennedy is pretty extreme. It has to be more than her being a rich brat or her silly drill sergeant routine.

Why does it have to be more than that? People like Tara and Gunn but hate Kennedy. You know it is possible to hate a character that has nothing to do with their race or sexuality.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

When Willow turns into Warren because she feels guilty over kissing Kennedy, that is a massive sign she hasn't finished grieving Tara. But Kennedy doesn't care about that, so long as she gets what she wants.

I don't think Willow would have gotten over Tara on her own. She would have become more and more isolated and drifted into depression and self-loathing. Willow is in a decidedly better place after she meets Kennedy than before. Willow only managed to get over Oz because she met Tara. I don't think she could have gotten back on her feet in s7 without serious backing. Kennedy provided that.

 

[Bop]

Therein lies the problem, it's all about what Kennedy wants. At no point is it about what Willow wants. Kennedy has a go at Willow for standing up for Buffy.

Yeah, but Kennedy has good intentions, if it was left up to Willow she'd be grieving over Tara for much longer but that's not necessarily a good thing. For the Buffy thing, I think Kennedy thought that Willow needed to stick up for herself and not be afraid to go against Buffy. Which is true, even as Buffy's best friend, if she's not comfortable with something then she doesn't have to follow along.

When Willow turns into Warren because she feels guilty over kissing Kennedy, that is a massive sign she hasn't finished grieving Tara. But Kennedy doesn't care about that, so long as she gets what she wants.

But Willow will never be done with missing and grieving Tara, it's just about her letting go and moving on with her life.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I don't think Willow would have gotten over Tara on her own. She would have become more and more isolated and drifted into depression and self-loathing. Willow is in a decidedly better place after she meets Kennedy than before. Willow only managed to get over Oz because she met Tara. I don't think she could have gotten back on her feet in s7 without serious backing. Kennedy provided that.

Yeah, but Kennedy has good intentions, if it was left up to Willow she'd be grieving over Tara for much longer but that's not necessarily a good thing. For the Buffy thing, I think Kennedy thought that Willow needed to stick up for herself and not be afraid to go against Buffy. Which is true, even as Buffy's best friend, if she's not comfortable with something then she doesn't have to follow along.

But Willow will never be done with missing and grieving Tara, it's just about her letting go and moving on with her life.

It's not up to Kennedy to decide when Willow should stop grieving Tara. If Willow wants to grieve for a long time than that's up to her, only she can decide when she's ready to move on, she shouldn't be pressured into it by Kennedy. Willow does stick up for herself when she disagrees with Buffy without Kennedy's input. Case in point, during the mutiny, Willow stands up to stay something. However, before she even opens her mouth, Kennedy ROUNDS on her and says angrily "Why are you always sticking up for her?!" There's a couple of things here:

1. Why wouldn't Willow stick up for Buffy, they've been best friends for years. Willow's only known Kennedy for a few weeks.
2. When Willow stuck up for Buffy in a previous argument, Kennedy had a go at her for that.
3. Kennedy wants Willow to side with her and is pissed if Willow doesn't do that.

 

[Bop]

Willow does stick up for herself when she disagrees with Buffy without Kennedy's input. Case in point, during the mutiny, Willow stands up to stay something. However, before she even opens her mouth, Kennedy ROUNDS on her and says angrily "Why are you always sticking up for her?!" There's a couple of things here:

Because Kennedy knows that Willow is feeling guilty about everyone ganging up on Buffy, but the problem is that Willow essentially does agree with them, she doesn't want to upset Buffy but she also doesn't want to go back into the cellar. Same with Xander, he trusted Buffy and he followed her and then he lost his eye for it - that's obviously not Buffy's fault but still that's what happened. So Willow was going to stick up for Buffy because she's her friend not because she's on her side. She was going to put her own opinions away and support Buffy just because she's her friend. Kennedy thought that was wrong and stopped Willow.

It's not up to Kennedy to decide when Willow should stop grieving Tara. If Willow wants to grieve for a long time than that's up to her, only she can decide when she's ready to move on, she shouldn't be pressured into it by Kennedy.

But it all ends positively, Willow wasn't upset that Kennedy cut her misery short, she was thankful as was I to see Willow kind of happy again before the closing curtain.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I am not a big fan of the mutiny and I am not saying Kennedy is the greatest person ever.

That being said, if Buffy could easily have had Willow's loyalty if she wanted it. Their friendship starts deteriorating in s4 and breaks down completely in s6. At some point, Willow decided not to put Buffy's interest before her own. In the comics, she is much more clear about this.

I am not saying the tension in their friendship is all Buffy's fault, but if Buffy wanted to be Willow's best friend again, she could easily have achieved this.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Because Kennedy knows that Willow is feeling guilty about everyone ganging up on Buffy, but the problem is that Willow essentially does agree with them, she doesn't want to upset Buffy but she also doesn't want to go back into the cellar. Same with Xander, he trusted Buffy and he followed her and then he lost his eye for it - that's obviously not Buffy's fault but still that's what happened. So Willow was going to stick up for Buffy because she's her friend not because she's on her side. She was going to put her own opinions away and support Buffy just because she's her friend. Kennedy thought that was wrong and stopped Willow.

But Willow WASN'T going to stick up for Buffy. She said "I'm not" when Kennedy accused her of being about to do so. Kennedy didn't even let her say anything before jumping down her throat. Even if Willow WAS going to stick up for Buffy, that is still Willow's choice, it's not up to Kennedy to try and dictate to Willow.

But it all ends positively, Willow wasn't upset that Kennedy cut her misery short, she was thankful as was I to see Willow kind of happy again before the closing curtain.

I think they could've shown Willow starting to move on by the end of the season WITHOUT having Kennedy harass her into a romantic relationship. Tara just hung out with Willow after Oz before it developed into a romantic relationship. Tara didn't harass Willow, unlike Kennedy who was romantically pursuing Willow from the get go.

 

[Bop]

But Willow WASN'T going to stick up for Buffy. She said "I'm not" when Kennedy accused her of being about to do so. Kennedy didn't even let her say anything before jumping down her throat. Even if Willow WAS going to stick up for Buffy, that is still Willow's choice, it's not up to Kennedy to try and dictate to Willow.

But Kennedy thought that Willow was making the wrong choice and being taken advantage of in a sense. Willow was clearly going to stick up for Buffy, I can't imagine that she'd be doing anything else. Kennedy was telling Willow not to be a push over basically. Buffy was handing out bad orders and Willow was going to support her mindlessly which did anger Kennedy. Willow had a loyalty to Buffy, but she also had a loyalty to Xander, who is voting no on the cellar plan so it wasn't only Kennedy's side that she was planning on leaving when she was going to defend Buffy.

I think they could've shown Willow starting to move on by the end of the season WITHOUT having Kennedy harass her into a romantic relationship. Tara just hung out with Willow after Oz before it developed into a romantic relationship. Tara didn't harass Willow, unlike Kennedy who was romantically pursuing Willow from the get go.

It's just not in Kennedy's nature to not be honest about her feelings, she liked Willow and so she acted on her feelings. Willow wasn't into it at first but when she gave in to Kennedy she got happier because of it so it's not like Kennedy pushed her into something awful, she pushed Willow out of her sadness. So I'm not upset that Kennedy was forceful, maybe Willow needed a bit of a kick up the butt 🙂

 

[DeadlyDuo]

But Kennedy thought that Willow was making the wrong choice and being taken advantage of in a sense. Willow was clearly going to stick up for Buffy, I can't imagine that she'd be doing anything else. Kennedy was telling Willow not to be a push over basically. Buffy was handing out bad orders and Willow was going to support her mindlessly which did anger Kennedy. Willow had a loyalty to Buffy, but she also had a loyalty to Xander, who is voting no on the cellar plan so it wasn't only Kennedy's side that she was planning on leaving when she was going to defend Buffy.

So what you are saying is that Kennedy cowed Willow into taking her side over Buffy's? That's even worse than Kennedy assuming Willow was going to take Buffy's side, even though she wasn't, and jumping down her throat because of it. If Buffy and Xander were on opposing sides then Willow would've hand no choice but to take the side she agreed with more because either way she'd be going against one of her best friends. It's not up to Kennedy to decide which side Willow should be on.

It's just not in Kennedy's nature to not be honest about her feelings, she liked Willow and so she acted on her feelings. Willow wasn't into it at first but when she gave in to Kennedy she got happier because of it so it's not like Kennedy pushed her into something awful, she pushed Willow out of her sadness. So I'm not upset that Kennedy was forceful, maybe Willow needed a bit of a kick up the butt 🙂

Kennedy may have acted on her feelings but she certainly didn't take Willow's feelings into account. You've said yourself "Willow wasn't into it at first" and that she "gave in to Kennedy". You also say that Kennedy was "forceful". Kennedy sexually harassed Willow and was rewarded for doing so. Had Kennedy been a man, then I'm sure the Killow relationship would be viewed differently. The point still stands though, it wasn't Kennedy's place or decision to make on when Willow should stop grieving Tara.

 

[Bite-me]

I always forget about Justine, she was the slayer called after Buffy's death in S5 correct? We act like this is a mystery? It's Justine?

 

[Monkey Pants]

Love Kennedy.
Hate Justine.

 

[Fool for Buffy]

Kennedy is pretty annoying but she never slit anyone's throat.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Call it a working hypothesis. The hatred towards Kennedy is pretty extreme. It has to be more than her being a rich brat or her silly drill sergeant routine.

Pretty much for me the hatred is because she was a brat and due to her silly drill sergeant routine. Especially when the annoying little brat undercuts Buffy with absolutely no authority to do so. The worst thing about Kennedy for me is not just her but Willow, a character that I know and love, falling for her which I find infuriating. Not only can I not stand her but Willow, who I want to be happy, decides she likes her? The dissonance between how Kennedy is portrayed (an annoying little B) and how Willow seems to take a liking to her makes my head spin and makes me hate the character even more. I just chalk it up to Season 7 craziness. Everyone has lost their damn minds.

I can't pick between these two they both suck, its like would you like to stick your hand on a hot stove or impale hand with a knife. Neither please and thanks.
 

I always forget about Justine, she was the slayer called after Buffy's death in S5 correct? We act like this is a mystery? It's Justine?

Wait what? Did I miss something? When do they say that she was a slayer???