Most hated Buffyverse character? Kennedy or Justine?

[Bite-me]

They mention it in the first episode she appears in? Holtz recruits a embittered vampire slayer to his team who shortly after being called lost her twin sister to vampires who mistook her for herself aka the slayer. She is in the cemetery paroling with a stake when we first meet her. Although I'm looking through wiki right now and it doesn't seem to want to confirm it to lore. Which is dumb, it answers the hundred million dollar question.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

They mention it in the first episode she appears in? Holtz recruits a embittered vampire slayer to his team who shortly after being called lost her twin sister to vampires who mistook her for herself aka the slayer. She is in the cemetery paroling with a stake when we first meet her. Although I'm looking through wiki right now and it doesn't seem to want to confirm it to lore. Which is dumb, it answers the hundred million dollar question.

Pretty sure she is a vampire hunter, not a slayer. She is a vampire hunter like Holtz.

 

[thrasherpix]

As one vampire said about Justine: "She thinks she's a Slayer. She's about to learn different."
 
Have to say that the hatred of Justine makes more sense than the hatred for Kennedy, and yet Kennedy gets more hate. (Just for the record, I'm fairly neutral to Kennedy as a character, and I liked Justine's arc but glad she didn't get anymore time than she did, but this shouldn't be mistaken for I'd like to have a drink with Justine, even if I pity her more than dislike her.)

Doing quick mental calculations (which include a lot of gut feelings) I'm gonna say it's because Kennedy is so much more involved in the story whereas Justine was more of a plot device that was never central (other than as Holtz's sidekick), and she's clearly defined as a villain from the start. Kennedy, OTOH, actually asserted herself more than some Scoobies as if she was a central character, and was obnoxious in doing so (had she been more witty and less obnoxious about it then she might remind me of a teen Buffy...), and not only comes off as snot-nosed but a false friend. "Replacing" Tara doesn't help, and to me it just doesn't feel right (though believable, it's not ideal, and felt to me as if the writers were rushing to get them there). Given her assertiveness, she is seen as central to that idiotic scene of kicking Buffy out of her own home (and by "idiotic" I mean the writers who were just in a hurry to move it along so they could wrap it up with no respect for the fans more than the characters!) even though it was Dawn that gave Buffy the ultimatum.

And even when she's not doing all of this she carries herself off as a bully (especially that one drill sergeant move--and though that by itself isn't really enough, just throw in everything else and her attitude problem would probably remind many of bullies they endured). And on top of that all the Potentials irritate fans who didn't like time taken from the characters we cared about to give us new shallow characters we couldn't care about (not based on the writing), and Kennedy arguably took away the most time, and when she does bring the attention back to Buffy and Willow then it's usually in an aggravating way.

I might throw in how women with attitude tend to be hated by many men and women alike much more than men with the same abrasive and assertive attitude, but given the other characters of the show (including Buffy herself in this same season) I'm going to say that wasn't a factor for most fans of Buffy, nor Kennedy's race and sexual orientation.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Tara just hung out with Willow after Oz before it developed into a romantic relationship. Tara didn't harass Willow, unlike Kennedy who was romantically pursuing Willow from the get go.

To be fair, Tara pursued a sexual relationship with Willow, while Willow was still waiting for Oz to come back. However, Willow is a big girl. She can make her own decision.

Kennedy sexually harassed Willow and was rewarded for doing so. Had Kennedy been a man, then I'm sure the Killow relationship would be viewed differently.

No, no, and no.

 

[Bop]

So what you are saying is that Kennedy cowed Willow into taking her side over Buffy's?

No I'm saying that Willow was going to make a decision that she didn't agree with and Kennedy stopped her.

Kennedy may have acted on her feelings but she certainly didn't take Willow's feelings into account. You've said yourself "Willow wasn't into it at first" and that she "gave in to Kennedy". You also say that Kennedy was "forceful". Kennedy sexually harassed Willow and was rewarded for doing so.

Kennedy never sexually harassed Willow, She persistently flirted with her and Willow began to like her. It was all very playful, there's no harassment there.

 

[flow]

I don`t hate Kennedy, but there was absolute zero chemistry between Iayri Limon (I had to look that name up) and Alyson Hannigan. There was less than zero chemistry. There was minus 100 ° Fahrenheit chemistry.

And that made watching the scenes between Willow and Kennedy simply unbearable. Especially after the sparks, we all had seen between Willow and Tara.

flow

 

[caitaintdead]

I have a few key points to make here. I won't bother quoting you all, but here it goes. Takes deep breath.

Firstly, to get it out of the way - I'm ambivalent towards Kennedy and I don't like Justine. I haven't spent time actively 'hating on' either of them but I would definitely choose Kennedy over Justine in an absolute heartbeat.

• Why would it be racism? Did I miss something here? I always thought she was the classification of a rich white girl. If she's part black or latina then she's definitely white passing.
• Most people that hate Kennedy are fans of Tara/Willow together so I highly doubt it is homophobia.
• The storyline should have spent season 7 with Willow single and grieving the death of her girlfriend. I am not judging those that move on quickly after being in a relationship, but from my experiences in the matter, it feels disrespectful and unrealistic.
  
• While Kennedy definitely helped Willow to move on, it doesn't mean that moving on is always the right thing for someone's piece of mind. Being single is not a crime. People can be happy and fulfilled without being in a relationship. It seems unfair to insinuate that for Willow to end the series happy she must be in a relationship.
• Kennedy did not sexually harass Willow.
• Justine fancied herself a slayer, but she wasn't one. Would have fit in well with the timeline though and given her character a lot more depth. Damn I wish they had followed this storyline.
• I agree that the actresses had zero sexual chemistry.

Sorry for not quoting direct, but had wayyy too many immediate mind thoughts to get down.

 

[Taake]

Kennedy probably, does Justine get a lot of hate? I'm not saying she's loved or anything, I certainly don't like her, but I've never seen the kind of viciousness in reactions to her as there are towards Kennedy.

Personally I dislike Kennedy more, because as Cait mentioned, for me it just seems disrespectful for Willow to move on so quickly. She turned evil because of Tara, but six months after that she's fine? Oh, okay then. I get that Joss wanted one of the Scoobies to be in a happy relationship at the end, but how about Xander? He and Anya could've patched things up, or he could've met someone new, if having a happy couple was so darn important. Or give Dawn a boyfriend! Willow just didn't sit quite right with me.

 

[Bite-me]

I mean, I can imagine a scenario where if Willow had met Kennedy before Tara, her spunky style and aggressive pursuit of Willow would have been endearing and ship worthy and though unlike others I never had strong feelings about the character one way or the other, I understand how right in the middle of Willow's grieving process was the wrong time. Especially with the upset of the way she died and in the middle of Willow's traumatic recovery. Oh I remember now! hey Whedon remember that big drug addiction metaphor you were so gung ho about? one is advise not to enter a new relationship during their first year of sobriety, probably why it seems so odd.

Although if she did have a gentle flirtation during S7, how cute would Willow and Felicia Day as the potential Violet have been?

Yeah I agree, if you want side plots, give Dawn something to do, I completely agree, she was so cute complaining about families with that demon teenage boy at Xander and Anya's wedding.

 

[caitaintdead]

Yeah I agree, if you want side plots, give Dawn something to do, I completely agree, she was so cute complaining about families with that demon teenage boy at Xander and Anya's wedding.

Yes! Loved that scene too. And agree... Dawn in a relationship this season would have been cute.

 

[Puppet]

I definitely don't hate Justine, wasn't even aware that that was a thing. Also hate may be a strong word to use about my feelings about Kennedy, but I seriously dislike her.

With Justine, I think it's because I understand her storyline and it fits in with the plot. I never felt like Kennedy had a place besides pushing her way into Willow's bed and therefore the Scoobies. I don't like having to scratch my head around a plot, I need to feel like it's sliding into place like puzzle pieces. Kennedy, imo, never did.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Although if she did have a gentle flirtation during S7, how cute would Willow and Felicia Day as the potential Violet have been?

I love Vi, but I don't think that could have worked. Kennedy was pushy, because Willow needed to be pushed. Vi was too muted. I don't imagine Willow would have noticed her. Kennedy was the right medicine for the right time. Similarly, Awulyn helped Willow get her edge back, but now Willow seems to be looking for someone more like Tara was.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

To be fair, Tara pursued a sexual relationship with Willow, while Willow was still waiting for Oz to come back. However, Willow is a big girl. She can make her own decision.

Tara liked Willow and would often compliment her, they hung out doing magic together which aided in the mutual attraction towards each other. However, when Oz reappeared on the scene, Tara was willing to step aside, telling Willow that she should be with the one she loved. Willow made the choice to be with Tara, Tara did not push her into that decision.

No I'm saying that Willow was going to make a decision that she didn't agree with and Kennedy stopped her.

I disagree. When Kennedy accuses Willow of sticking up for Buffy, Willow replies "I'm not". There's only two ways Willow's response makes sense within the context of the scene:

1. Willow WASN'T going to stand up for Buffy but Kennedy automatically jumped down her throat before she could say anything. This makes Kennedy look bad.

or

2. Willow WAS going to stick up for Buffy (or at least try and be more diplomatic) but Kennedy intimidated her into saying "I'm not" by jumping down Willow's throat (which is something she'd done in an earlier scene) before she could say anything. This makes Kennedy look worse.

It is not up to Kennedy to decide what Willow believes. If Willow chooses to side with Buffy that's her choice. Kennedy should not get a say. That is one of the biggest problems with Kennedy, she's too keen to insert her opinion where it's neither required nor wanted. She evens complains to Faith that she thought things would be "different" with Faith in charge but Faith isn't letting her have her say just like Buffy didn't. It makes the mutiny against Buffy even worse because now it isn't just about questioning Buffy's leadership but about Kennedy initiating the mutiny all because she wanted to insert her opinion and Buffy wasn't letting her.

Kennedy never sexually harassed Willow, She persistently flirted with her and Willow began to like her. It was all very playful, there's no harassment there.

By that logic then, Spike never stalked Buffy, he "persistently" pursued her until she developed feelings for him.

Kennedy continued to flirt with Willow even when it was clear that Willow was uncomfortable with it. That "persistence" is harassment.

I love Vi, but I don't think that could have worked. Kennedy was pushy, because Willow needed to be pushed. Vi was too muted. I don't imagine Willow would have noticed her. Kennedy was the right medicine for the right time. Similarly, Awulyn helped Willow get her edge back, but now Willow seems to be looking for someone more like Tara was.

I think Vi would've worked because she had a similar attitude to Tara. I'm certainly not saying it would be a long term thing, but it would make more sense for Willow to start moving on with someone like Vi than with someone like Kennedy.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Tara liked Willow and would often compliment her, they hung out doing magic together which aided in the mutual attraction towards each other. However, when Oz reappeared on the scene, Tara was willing to step aside, telling Willow that she should be with the one she loved. Willow made the choice to be with Tara, Tara did not push her into that decision.

I love Willow and Tara above all else, however, I cannot completely condone the way things went down. Willow slept with Tara, who clearly loved Willow. Tara even declares herself to be Willow's. Willow tells Tara that she has a boyfriend who went away, leading Tara to assume that Willow will dump her when Oz comes back. I think Tara had every right to demand that Willow made up her mind.

I can understand Willow's position. She missed Oz and she was afraid to come out. However, she put Tara through a lot. Kennedy would never have put up with being left hanging so long, and I don't think that makes her a bad person.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I love Willow and Tara above all else, however, I cannot completely condone the way things went down. Willow slept with Tara, who clearly loved Willow. Tara even declares herself to be Willow's. Willow tells Tara that she has a boyfriend who went away, leading Tara to assume that Willow will dump her when Oz comes back. I think Tara had every right to demand that Willow made up her mind.

Willow was already in love with Tara when Oz came back. She was conflicted over her feelings for him but ultimately chose Tara. Tara assumed Willow was going to choose Oz so gave Willow her "blessing" to make it easier on Willow, telling Willow she should be with the person she loves. She was surprised and overjoyed when Willow told her she already was.

I can understand Willow's position. She missed Oz and she was afraid to come out. However, she put Tara through a lot. Kennedy would never have put up with being left hanging so long, and I don't think that makes her a bad person.

You're right in that Kennedy wouldn't have put up with being left hanging (nor should she). However, Kennedy would be less "Choose the person you want to be with and be done with it" and more "You better choose me! Why the hell is it taking you so long to make a decision?! We're together now, the choice should be obvious!"

 

[Bop]

I disagree. When Kennedy accuses Willow of sticking up for Buffy, Willow replies "I'm not". There's only two ways Willow's response makes sense within the context of the scene:

Or Willow says "I'm not" because she doesn't want Kennedy to think that she was going to to side with Buffy.

Kennedy continued to flirt with Willow even when it was clear that Willow was uncomfortable with it. That "persistence" is harassment.

Willow wasn't uncomfortable with Kennedy flirting with her, she went on a 'date' with her and Buffy and Willow share a joke about the possible relationship between Kennedy and Willow. Willow gives quite a bit of flirting back to Kennedy. That's why it's a playful pursuit not harassment.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Or Willow says "I'm not" because she doesn't want Kennedy to think that she was going to to side with Buffy.

Why should it matter what Kennedy thinks? It shouldn't. If Willow feels like she can't support Buffy because of Kennedy possibly having a go at her (which she did anyway) then there is a massive problem there which again doe not put Kennedy in a good light. Willow has been friends with Buffy for 7 years, she's only known Kennedy for a few weeks. If Kennedy thinks she can just come in and tell Willow what to think, then it's just another example of why Kennedy is a terrible character.

Willow wasn't uncomfortable with Kennedy flirting with her, she went on a 'date' with her and Buffy and Willow share a joke about the possible relationship between Kennedy and Willow. Willow gives quite a bit of flirting back to Kennedy. That's why it's a playful pursuit not harassment.

Kennedy tricked Willow into that date. Willow was flirting with Fred in "Orpheus", she should've pursued that, that was playful because at no point did Fred feel uncomfortable. Buffy and Xander encouraging Willow to "get back on the horse" so to speak would've given Willow a push to get through her grief without pressuring her into it. Because they're her best friends, it would show that they have her best interests at heart. Kennedy took it upon herself to get Willow over Tara so that she could have Willow for herself. It was selfishly-motivated and all Kennedy cared about was getting what she wanted.

 

[Bop]

If Willow feels like she can't support Buffy because of Kennedy possibly having a go at her (which she did anyway) then there is a massive problem there which again doe not put Kennedy in a good light.

Willow didn't not support Buffy because of Kennedy. Kennedy made her realise that she actually doesn't have a valid reason to support Buffy in this case- because she's known her for seven years is not a reason.

Kennedy tricked Willow into that date.

Okay and did Willow run away or act remotely uncomfortable at that date with Kennedy? No, she joked along with her because it's all harmless.

Willow was flirting with Fred in "Orpheus", she should've pursued that, that was playful because at no point did Fred feel uncomfortable.

Willow rejected Fred for Kennedy, doesn't seem like something you'd do for the person 'harassing' you. Willow likes Kennedy and doesn't mind her advances, the only thing that bothers Willow is that she's worried she's betraying Tara somehow. But after 'The killer in me' Willow sees that it's okay to let Tara go and move on. That's a good thing not a bad thing.

Buffy and Xander encouraging Willow to "get back on the horse" so to speak would've given Willow a push to get through her grief without pressuring her into it.

And Buffy supports Willow getting together with Kennedy because it shows that she's moving on. The point is Willow wasn't at all forced to do anything with Kennedy.

 

[Mr Trick]

Kennedy is much worse for me. Because of the way she is forced into the Willow plot and how unconvincing I found their relationship. At least with Justine I could buy her relationship with Holtz.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Willow didn't not support Buffy because of Kennedy. Kennedy made her realise that she actually doesn't have a valid reason to support Buffy in this case- because she's known her for seven years is not a reason.

How did Kennedy make her "realise" she shouldn't support Buffy other than having a go at her? It is none of Kennedy's business who Willow supports but yet again Kennedy has to insert her opinion because she wants to get her own way.

Okay and did Willow run away or act remotely uncomfortable at that date with Kennedy? No, she joked along with her because it's all harmless.

Willow made to leave until Kennedy told her she just wanted to talk. Willow was happy just talking then Kennedy kissed her and Willow turned into Warren.

Willow rejected Fred for Kennedy, doesn't seem like something you'd do for the person 'harassing' you. Willow likes Kennedy and doesn't mind her advances, the only thing that bothers Willow is that she's worried she's betraying Tara somehow. But after 'The killer in me' Willow sees that it's okay to let Tara go and move on. That's a good thing not a bad thing.

By that point Willow had already given in. Willow's worried that she is betraying Tara, it's a classic sign that she's not over Tara yet. If Willow was ready to move on, then she wouldn't feel like she is betraying her dead lover to the extent that she turns into Warren.

And Buffy supports Willow getting together with Kennedy because it shows that she's moving on. The point is Willow wasn't at all forced to do anything with Kennedy.

Buffy supports Willow because she wants Willow to be happy. Buffy and Xander didn't know what to make of Tara at first but they tried to get along and be friendly because Tara made Willow happy.

The writers could also be using Buffy to try and get the audience to support the Killow ship because of how unpopular it is.