Most Hated Minor Character

Just to add to what Wicked said, Harmony was a very interesting character...of all the people vamped in both Buffy and Angel, she was the ONLY one who didn't undergo a character change after being demonized! Her character is exactly the same (except for the drinking blood thing). She is the ultimate satiric character. The implication is that, as a high school snob, she was essentially so bereft of a soul that losing it did nothing to change her! It was like losing her soul changed nothing in her life but her diet...a masterful joke spread over multiple seasons by Whedon and Co...
 
Just to add to what Wicked said, Harmony was a very interesting character...of all the people vamped in both Buffy and Angel, she was the ONLY one who didn't undergo a character change after being demonized! Her character is exactly the same (except for the drinking blood thing). She is the ultimate satiric character. The implication is that, as a high school snob, she was essentially so bereft of a soul that losing it did nothing to change her! It was like losing her soul changed nothing in her life but her diet...a masterful joke spread over multiple seasons by Whedon and Co...

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny too. Plus that fight scene between her and Xander was priceless.
 
M
Mulder22
yeah that fight scene was great
Now to comment on the 'Kate Hate'.

I'm going 'Arnold' now.....what you talkin' 'bout Willi...ummm Jules.
Seemed to me that the writers never intended Kate to be any kind of Love interest for Angel. She wasn't any kind of replacement for anyone, on the contrary I find she was a refreshing character added to show that Angel was now in the adult world.

Well, I got the impression that there was a potention relationship there. Doing a little back ground reading on Angel's relationship over the 'net and on Wikipedia it even states:

Kate Lockley. The strong possibility of a relationship was hinted at, but ultimately didn't materialize.

Bored of the Dead said:
The similarities between Buffy and Kate are...Blonde.
Kate wasn't a Demon Hunter, she could fight but that wasn't really how we perceived her. She was a Cop, in an Adult, seedy world not privvy to all the information but when faced with it she acted Human.

Both women are independant, strong and yes, blonde. Kate could look after herself, just the same as Buffy. They had the same steely resolve.

Bored of the Dead said:
Also, we need to take into her account that although she was initailly surprised by the Demon world, it wasn't until her father died at the hands of Vampires that she really began the 'hate on Angel'.
She was grieving at that loss and her usual way to deal with that situation would have been to bring the 'perp' to Justice, however thanks to their nature she couldn't do that. Angel was a convenient target for all her venom because he was a Vampire.
Had she really taken time to think about it, then maybe she'd have had a different way to deal but in the end, she does come to a sort of realisation that seems to put her back on track.

As you stated before, Kate was an adult thrown into a supernatural world. I think her reaction to Angel was very childish. It was along the lines of saying that a man killed her father, therefore she should hate all men. As a cop, much like a Slayer, she has to be above thoughts like that. It's her job to be objective and she was a good cop.

She's just not my favourite person.
 
Balthazar sucked. So did Rona. I hate them both. A lot.

Bathlazar is (I quote) a stupid fat demon in a tub full of water.

Rona is the most hated of all the potentials. She always said the most selfish and thoughtless things... just plain bitchy.
 
As you stated before, Kate was an adult thrown into a supernatural world. I think her reaction to Angel was very childish. It was along the lines of saying that a man killed her father, therefore she should hate all men. As a cop, much like a Slayer, she has to be above thoughts like that. It's her job to be objective and she was a good cop.


Vampires are evil. Your argument is almost along the lines of, 'If a pedophile rapes and murders my child, I must be objective and only hate the pedophile who violated my offspring.' Kinda preposterous 'reasoning', no?

I liked Kate. I would have liked to have seen more of her, especially after she was fired.

I don't agree about Harmony. She didn't add much to either show. Her purpose was out of context humour, not much else. Her exclusion would have had little affect on either show.
 
Bored of the Dead : Gotta say there Jess, its a little arrogant to assume that most people hated him because of Bangel love.
I know many a fan that don't like/didn't like Bangel yet didn't like Riley.
Personally, I get bored with all the 'Shipper' talk.
If the only reason you are tuning into a show is to see a 'will they/won't they' senario, watch the re-runs of Friends. I watch these shows because of the sometimes powerful statements they make regarding all walks of life and the relationships of the time suit the story that is being told.
If i have a preference of a 'ship' then thats because of the story, not because i'm rooting for two made up characters to 'get it on'.

With Riley, my biggest 'hate' about him is the loss of potential.
Season 4 had the one idea that if executed right could have changed many of the poorer sides of the remaining years of the show, and Riley was a big part of that. The Initiative.
I think Riley was a let down because in part the Initiative was.
Plus, I've said it before and i'll say it again....Mark Blucas is a terrible actor.


I have to agree with you on this one. I dont think you can assume that people hated Riley because of the Bangel ship or even the Spuffy ship... I just didnt like his personality.. at the start he seemed like a nice guy and everything.. but then he turned into an ass.. that and i hated the Initiative argh... he hated the fact that buffy was stronger than him.. face it honny.. i hated how he was wanting to be in control of her at times.. he just annoyed me.. i was glad when he left.. then he came back when buffy was with spike... die already :hehe:
 
Oh yeah, I forgot to include Riley in that post... I hated him too. A LOT. I tend to be very biased against anything with his name on/in it.
 
Z
zombie.apparatus
yep... i wouldnt use his name in a convo around me unless its you hating him :D
Rona is the most hated of all the potentials. She always said the most selfish and thoughtless things... just plain bitchy.

Now Kennedy... don't get me started on her... I never really warmed up to the whole potentials idea in the first place, but of all the girls she was the most annoying, period.

i think there's a lot of hate to spread around with the potentials. im personally on the fence on whether i liked them in general, but my least favourites would probably be, firstly, kennedy. probably cause of my love for willow/tara, but also because she was a bit spoiled and hard to warm up to as a character. i did not like rona because she was really mean a lot of the time. but one of the ones who annoyed me the most was amanda! she bugged me so much!
 
Jules said:
Well, I got the impression that there was a potention relationship there. Doing a little back ground reading on Angel's relationship over the 'net and on Wikipedia it even states:

Kate Lockley. The strong possibility of a relationship was hinted at, but ultimately didn't materialize.

First of all. Until you can show me that Joss Whedon or David Greenwalt wrote that last line, then all you have is an opinion to back up your impression.
And if you REALLY wanna go down the route of using an Internet opinion to back up an arguement then I have sources to 'prove' The Yeti is our missing link to the Primate World BUT was brought here by a group of Aliens intent on making a human civilization for the use as a slave race and that all this ill come to light on December 21st 2012.......but then we know no matter how many links I post to that its all, as Spike would say, 'Bollocks'.

Jules said:
Both women are independant, strong and yes, blonde. Kate could look after herself, just the same as Buffy. They had the same steely resolve.

Hmmm, I wonder if that describes anyone else.

Take out Blonde and we have 'independant, strong, looking after herself and 'steely resolve'.

Oh yeah, pretty much every leading and eventual co-star in the show because Joss has that 'Feminine Power' akin to Dan Brown complex doesn't her.

Seriously, Buffy and Kate Lockley are quite different just watch them both in action again and you will see.

Jules said:
As you stated before, Kate was an adult thrown into a supernatural world. I think her reaction to Angel was very childish. It was along the lines of saying that a man killed her father, therefore she should hate all men. As a cop, much like a Slayer, she has to be above thoughts like that. It's her job to be objective and she was a good cop.
As Dzhugashvili basically suggests, how can you be objective about something that is inherently evil that IS the cause of the most significant person in your lifes death?

Her reaction to Angel was believable.
Everything she knew about the world was wrong.
Her worst nightmares were people, and now she is told there are things that are worst, and AS she did her reading up on Angelus, she knew that at one point he was the worst.
Kates issues were not just with him though, it was everything that he represented and thats why she is believeable.
Its fine that you don't like her, I don't like a few characters too, but if your opinion is based on your incorrect view of a situation, then you should try and revisit this problem.
 
VisionGuy
VisionGuy
[No message]
Vampires are evil. Your argument is almost along the lines of, 'If a pedophile rapes and murders my child, I must be objective and only hate the pedophile who violated my offspring.' Kinda preposterous 'reasoning', no?

No, what I said was, that as a cop, Kate didn't have the luxury of being like everyone else. She has to be objective. Its her job. As a cop, she would have to look at a case and reason out who did it. If she was working on a case she couldn't just arrest any known pedophile. She would have to find the one who did it. Angel was not evil, Angel was not the one who killed her father. Kate should have been able to reason that out as a cop.

First of all. Until you can show me that Joss Whedon or David Greenwalt wrote that last line, then all you have is an opinion to back up your impression.
And if you REALLY wanna go down the route of using an Internet opinion to back up an arguement then I have sources to 'prove' The Yeti is our missing link to the Primate World BUT was brought here by a group of Aliens intent on making a human civilization for the use as a slave race and that all this ill come to light on December 21st 2012.......but then we know no matter how many links I post to that its all, as Spike would say, 'Bollocks'.

READ what I said. I said I got the impression...as in my opinion. I am not trying to prove it as fact. I added the internet link to show that I'm not the only person in the world who got that impression. And it's only in your opinion that a love interest was not hinted at!

Bored of the Dead said:
Hmmm, I wonder if that describes anyone else.

Take out Blonde and we have 'independant, strong, looking after herself and 'steely resolve'.

Oh yeah, pretty much every leading and eventual co-star in the show because Joss has that 'Feminine Power' akin to Dan Brown complex doesn't her.

Seriously, Buffy and Kate Lockley are quite different just watch them both in action again and you will see.

Angel, seems to have types....Darla - blonde, Buffy - blonde, along with similar strong personalities, so forgive me for thinking that the new, introdcued female character (who is blond and can kick ass) is Angel's new love interest.

Also, I wouldn't describe Cordy as those things. Cordy's single minded. Faith was kick ass but with a suprising vulnerability and Willow didn't have 'steely resolve'. She used to come through at the end, but she always questionned her powers.

So, no. I don't think that every female character has the same personality types.

Bored of the Dead said:
As Dzhugashvili basically suggests, how can you be objective about something that is inherently evil that IS the cause of the most significant person in your lifes death?

Her reaction to Angel was believable.
Everything she knew about the world was wrong.
Her worst nightmares were people, and now she is told there are things that are worst, and AS she did her reading up on Angelus, she knew that at one point he was the worst.
Kates issues were not just with him though, it was everything that he represented and thats why she is believeable.
Its fine that you don't like her, I don't like a few characters too, but if your opinion is based on your incorrect view of a situation, then you should try and revisit this problem.

And as I stated before, Kate was blaming Angel for the acts of the vampire race. In her professional job, Kate can't have the luxury of not being objective. She has to look at cases and see who is responsible...she can't blame everything on one person. She wouldn't have been trained like that.
 
I never liked Harmony on Btvs. She was annoying. Also, never liked Forrest either. On Ats, Knox definitly, and Hamilton, I know he was a big bad, but he pissed me off.
 
No, what I said was, that as a cop, Kate didn't have the luxury of being like everyone else. She has to be objective. Its her job. As a cop, she would have to look at a case and reason out who did it. If she was working on a case she couldn't just arrest any known pedophile. She would have to find the one who did it. Angel was not evil, Angel was not the one who killed her father. Kate should have been able to reason that out as a cop.

Kate was first and foremost a human being. With that description in itself you have to accept that she is flawed because no one is perfect.
Your entire comment seems to suggest that ecause she is a 'Cop' she automatically loses what it takes to be human which is preposterous.

READ what I said. I said I got the impression...as in my opinion. I am not trying to prove it as fact. I added the internet link to show that I'm not the only person in the world who got that impression. And it's only in your opinion that a love interest was not hinted at!
And what I did was say to you that your 'opinion' should only be yours as you cannot provide actual facts to back it up.
You added a link from a site that is suggesting they knew what was going on within the show, when in fact all THEY have is opinion too.

Angel, seems to have types....Darla - blonde, Buffy - blonde, along with similar strong personalities, so forgive me for thinking that the new, introdcued female character (who is blond and can kick ass) is Angel's new love interest.

Also, I wouldn't describe Cordy as those things. Cordy's single minded. Faith was kick ass but with a suprising vulnerability and Willow didn't have 'steely resolve'. She used to come through at the end, but she always questionned her powers.

So, no. I don't think that every female character has the same personality types.

Yes, but Darla and Buffy are NOTHING personality wise.
As for Cordy....did you see the show?
Her entire character is the epitome of a woman on the path top being strong, confident, powerful and with a steely resolve.
Willow is exactly the same. By the end of Buffy Willow is given the chance to see this in herself and becomes this.
Not once did i say that any of these characters were this from the start, BUT they ALL had it in them to be that one day.
Its Joss' entire reason for the show, the Empowerment of women, which is born from a place of confidence, self reliance/belief, and to stick to what they believe no matter what 'The Man' says.
No woman was weak within the confines of the show by the time they finally left...which brings us back to 'Oh yeah, pretty much every leading and eventual co-star in the show'.
Even the crazy Drusilla had these traits.

And as I stated before, Kate was blaming Angel for the acts of the vampire race. In her professional job, Kate can't have the luxury of not being objective. She has to look at cases and see who is responsible...she can't blame everything on one person. She wouldn't have been trained like that.
Because he was a representation of everything in the world that was bad.
When she did learn the truth of Vampires, she immediately went looking for information and what does she find - the exploits of Angelus.
She knows the horror that Angelus caused, she doesn't know how to differentiate between the two because she still doesn't understand. BUT when she sees he isn't like that, she begins to understand he is different...until her father is murdered by Vampires.
In that moment she is brought deeper into a world of terror and she blames Angel for pulling her into it. Added to tht these beasts are what killed her, she is reminded of the evil that Angelus did.
Being a Cop doesn't give her a protective shield so that she can step away from her thoughts, feelings and emotions, she is still human and THATS why her reaction is far more believable than most of the other people who 'find out' about the Demon world.
 
Kate was first and foremost a human being. With that description in itself you have to accept that she is flawed because no one is perfect.
Your entire comment seems to suggest that ecause she is a 'Cop' she automatically loses what it takes to be human which is preposterous.

It may suggest that to you, but what I'm trying to say is that Kate would have dealt with situations day in and day out that highlighted the fact that one persons actions can't be blamed on someone else. As her job focused on this, and she dealt with it more often, she should have been better prepared when it happened.


Bored of the Dead said:
And what I did was say to you that your 'opinion' should only be yours as you cannot provide actual facts to back it up.
You added a link from a site that is suggesting they knew what was going on within the show, when in fact all THEY have is opinion too.

But its not just my opinion. I added the link to show other people agreed with my opinion. It may have suggested that to you, but no where in my post did I try and state it as fact. You came to that conclusion on your own. You asumed that.

Bored of the Dead said:
Yes, but Darla and Buffy are NOTHING personality wise.

Your contradicting your next post by saying that

Bored of the Dead said:
As for Cordy....did you see the show?

No I'm basing my entire opinion of hearsay - insert sarcasm

Bored of the Dead said:
Her entire character is the epitome of a woman on the path top being strong, confident, powerful and with a steely resolve.
Willow is exactly the same. By the end of Buffy Willow is given the chance to see this in herself and becomes this.
Not once did i say that any of these characters were this from the start, BUT they ALL had it in them to be that one day.
Its Joss' entire reason for the show, the Empowerment of women, which is born from a place of confidence, self reliance/belief, and to stick to what they believe no matter what 'The Man' says.
No woman was weak within the confines of the show by the time they finally left...which brings us back to 'Oh yeah, pretty much every leading and eventual co-star in the show'.
Even the crazy Drusilla had these traits.

There all strong women, but their all different. Like I've already said, Willow always came through in the end, but she lacked confidence. She was nervous about taping into her power source again...both Kate and Buffy had an assured confidence...Buffy from being the Slayer and Kate from being a cop in LA.

Bored of the Dead said:
Because he was a representation of everything in the world that was bad.
When she did learn the truth of Vampires, she immediately went looking for information and what does she find - the exploits of Angelus.
She knows the horror that Angelus caused, she doesn't know how to differentiate between the two because she still doesn't understand. BUT when she sees he isn't like that, she begins to understand he is different...until her father is murdered by Vampires.
In that moment she is brought deeper into a world of terror and she blames Angel for pulling her into it. Added to tht these beasts are what killed her, she is reminded of the evil that Angelus did.
Being a Cop doesn't give her a protective shield so that she can step away from her thoughts, feelings and emotions, she is still human and THATS why her reaction is far more believable than most of the other people who 'find out' about the Demon world.

No, it doesn't give her a sheild, but being a cop should have given her move practice at dealing with Angel. No, not the supernatural aspect, but the fact that his actions had nothing to do with her fathers death. You can't honestly say that Kate's reaction to Angel was fair and just?
 
Faith
Faith
Oh how I missed you...its true all the old ones keep coming back!
No, what I said was, that as a cop, Kate didn't have the luxury of being like everyone else. She has to be objective. Its her job. As a cop, she would have to look at a case and reason out who did it. If she was working on a case she couldn't just arrest any known pedophile. She would have to find the one who did it. Angel was not evil, Angel was not the one who killed her father. Kate should have been able to reason that out as a cop.

I think you missed my point, its ok it happens sometimes. Did Kate charge Angel with the murder of her father?
No, it doesn't give her a sheild, but being a cop should have given her move practice at dealing with Angel. No, not the supernatural aspect, but the fact that his actions had nothing to do with her fathers death. You can't honestly say that Kate's reaction to Angel was fair and just?

Just? No. If I, as a cop, read that someone killed a bunch of people but was never charged with it, and I couldn't charge them, I'd damn well make sure they paid in some way.

Kate didn't. She was mean to Angel..boohoo.

For all Kate knows Angel could return to his evil ways, as a cop its her job to protect people.

Given Angel's murky past, and her fathers murder, I think kate's reaction is completely fair, justified ad understandable. It would have been completely unreasonable if Kate just went on as if things were normal(it would have been horrible storytelling).
 
Could you really call Dawn a minor character? I mean, I hated her too (sorry to be so rude 🙁 ) but she was a major part of the series.
 
Eve. Really didn't like her. I can't put my finger on it, not sure if it was her character or the actress that portrayed her, I just used to cringe when she appeared.
 
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